Purple Tang lost color or possibly even skin?

[jdieck]

To build on ronjeremy's recommendation, I will sugest you get an Alkalinity test kit and try to keep the alkalinity at a level around 3 to 3.5 meq/lt (8.5 to 9.5 dKh). This will help you maintain a more stable PH. Also I will suggest to insure the actual PH reading it OK by double checking a test sumple with someone elses kit or at the lfs.
Aerating the tank is vital as Ron mentions but will do little if the air is CO2 ladden (Usually tight houses have elevated levels of CO2). If you need to add buffers you need to test the alkalinity as the buffers really increase Alkalinity (not PH) so you may end up with high alkalinity and still low PH.
Together with the refractometer If you do not have one a PH monitor is a great investment.
By the way, on salinity the range recommended by Ron is good, try to keep it in the middle of the range so it give you some room to account for measurement variations and water top off / evaporation. By the way sure you know it but just in case, do not use salt water for top off as the salt does not evaporate, doing it so will increase your salinity over time.

 

[danorth]

Is there any live rock in that tank? Doesn't appear to be. That fish needs stuff to graze on and there isn't any. Your purple tang looks just like the ones I see in Petco that have nothing to graze on. Buy some cured/seasoned LR, lots of it.

 

[GigaFish]

So correct me if I missed anything but these are the problems I am facing:

1) Nitrates are at 40ppm and need to be reduced to 0 by doing very frequent water changes or a single major water change.
2) P.H. is currently at 7.7 and needs to be raised to 8.2 and the purchase of a P.H. monitor is advised. Ensure a powerhead is agitating the surface to create efficient gas exchange.
3) Salinity is currently at 1.028 and needs to be lowered to a medium between 1.021 and 1.026 by replacing some tank water with fresh RODI water with no salt.
4) The purple tang seems to have HLLE and to reverse the effects feed it spirulina flakes and omega 2 while also feeding it a good supply of nori that has been soaked in zoe, zoecon, and garlic essence. The purchase of live rock will also benefit the tank.

Shopping List:
1) Zoe
2) Zoecon
3) Garlic Essence
4) Alkalinity Tester
5) P.H. Monitor
6) Spirulina Flakes
7) Omega 2 Flakes
8) Nori
9) Veggie Clip

Am I missing anything?

I guess the only question I have now is about the P.H. Do I only need to remove the lid of the tank and agitate the surface of the water to raise the ph? Is there more I should do?

 

[jdieck]

For the time being aeration will help, once you know your alkalinity further adjustments with different supplements will also help. From the first picture it seems you have an airstone in the tank (Is that an air column I see on the right?) If so is there a way you can feed outside air to that airpump or pump the air from the outside?

What kind of filtration do you have? Do you have a skimmer or a bioball drip filter?
Live rock can help with reducing nitrates as deep within the rock Anaerobic bacteria develops that consumes Nitrates and convert them into Nitrogen gas which escapes from the tank.
If you are thinking on adding Live Rock I would suggest to research it very well, it might be a messy process unles you find some fully cured and the look of the tank will not be as neat as you have it now. I recommend you to take a look at some fish only with live rock tanks before you make your mind.
The addition of a skimmer if you do not have one can also help with the Nitrates as they are very efficient in removing nutrients before they end up as Nitrate.

 

[ronjeremy]

so you will need
1.nori
2.veggie clip
3.spirulina based food, Formula 2, or Omega 2
4.Zoe and Zoecon
5.garlic
6.alk test kit
7.ph meter or monitor

..here is a cheap ph meter..you could spend a little more money and get a ph monitor(monitors 24/7)..i don't know what your budget is, but this one is pretty cheap and it is reliable..you will also need some calibration fluid to calibrate it form time to time..i buy a bottle of it, but you can start with these individual pckets...
http://www.premiumaquatics.com/Merc...duct_Code=MIL-PH600AQ&Category_Code=Milwaukee
http://www.premiumaquatics.com/Merc...oduct_Code=MIL-CAL7.1&Category_Code=Milwaukee

 

[ronjeremy]

if you have a lid on your tank, i would remove it..the gas exchange is important..try doing this and creating good flow in the tank as well as the surface.. if this does not help, try opening up your house for a bit if it isn't too cold..let some fresh air in and get the CO2 out!!!then test your ph..it may take a day or so for it to rise..also, you are correct....lower the salinity and nitrates.!!..add some fresh water topoff to the tank to lower the salinity..i would mix some water at about 1.021-1.024 to use for a big water change after that.. the water change alone should cut your nitrates a bit..what kind of filter do you have?? if you are using polyfilters of any sort, change them out now if you already haven't..they can build up nitrates rather quickly..i would change them every 4-5 days... tell us a little more about the tank setup..how big is the tank?? what kind of filtration?? are you using RO/DI water??..we can help get your water parameters in check really fast..the more we know, the more we can help!! also, the liverock would be good, but if you decide to do it, i cannot stress the importance of it being fully cured liverock..don't just throw some liverock in the tank..it could be a disaster

 

[GigaFish]

The tank is a 54g oceanic corner tank. I am running a 1 month old fluval 405 canister filter with a coralife uv sterilizer. Crushed coral substrate. Instant ocean salt. Whisper 60 air pump (which I have enough hose for to set by my open window for a while, I just dont want that to be permanent) It does have a 3 piece lid that I can easily take 2 pieces off without losing my lighting. Aside from the small amount of water movement from the return line of my canister filter I have one cheap rio 90 powerhead (80gph) forcing water in an X pattern across the current from the filter return. My heater is set at 79 and my thermometer says 82. I have one volitan lionfish, one marine betta, and one purple tang. I was told that the lighting is just the standard actinic flourescents but I dont know enough about lighting to give any more information.

I just got back from the LFS. I got 5 out of the 9 things on my list and I paid $30 more than the price of all 9 items online. I can deal with that to have this stuff here now. I think I will order online from now on though.

Here is what I got:

Seacham Garlic Guard
Kent Marine Zoe
American Marine Selcon (They didnt have zoecon)
Aquatrol Spirulina 20 Flakes (Huge Bottle)
30 sheets of Nori.

I didnt buy the testers because they only had test kits that looked untrusting and they were highly overpriced. I hope we can get through this without them for now until I can get more money. I do have a saltwater test kit at home that has P.H. in it, thats how I got my reading. The only alkalinity test that I have however is a 6in1 quick dip test strip that seems to be giving the same result on ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate as the saltwater test kit so I may be able to use that to my benefit.

 

[ronjeremy]

you will be fine with what you have...the ph meter is just nice to have..it gives an exact reading..the test strips can be off a little bit...go ahead and start feeding the nori with vitamins and garlic..don't add too much..they seem to disperse everywhere in the water when they are soaked..i add about a drop or two of each, once a day...also, be careful about overfeeding..it can pollute the water with phosphates and nitrates(algae fuel)..if it is HLLE, it will be slow to correct itself, but just make sure it doesn't get any worse..the water changes are a huge help!!! i would take the 2 lids off that you mentioned , along with the surface agitation, and go from there!!

 

[jdieck]

You are almost there, try the airstone from the outside for a while and see if you have improvement. The PH test kits are not as accurate so you PH may not be that low but you shall see a change regardless of the actual level.
Test strips are not that accurate but at this point an order of magnitude is what we will be looking for. Note that most test strips measure in ppm 50 ppm = 1 meq/lt or 17.86 ppm = 1 dKh

 

[GigaFish]

**SHOCKING UPDATE**

What I did:

So last night after discussing what needed to be done to my tank I came home and instantly got to work on everything we had talked about. I extended the hose of my air pump so I could reach the pump all the way to the window and I opened the window and pointed the intake outside. I only left that going for 45 min because its pretty cold outside. Then I did a 10 gallon water change. After everything had settled there I put a dose of Seacham marine ph buffer that is supposed to aid in raising the ph to 8.3. Then I took a piece of nori and soaked it in zoe, selcon, and garlic and clipped it to the veggie clip, then poured the mix into the tank. I also fed my tang some spirulina flakes.

The result:

After testing my p.h. has gone from 7.7 to 8.0. My nitrates have fallen from 60 ppm to 15 ppm. My ammonia and nitrite are still at 0. My salinity has dropped to 1.026 but I still have some room to pour more freshwater in and thin that out a little bit. The most amazing thing of all though....When I came home from work today, just about 24 hours from the time I did that stuff yesterday, my purple tang is already showing signs of improvement with his HLLE. I can see purple pigmentation returning around his mouth and between his eyes and also down the lateral line. I did not expect to see any sign of recovery for months.

Thanks alot to everyone that helped me with this problem and also for helping get started with saltwater and the correct water parameters.

 

[ronjeremy]

the nitrates fell that fast with a 10g water change??? i would go ahead and do 1-2 more this week...also, add some topoff water to get the salinity down a bit..don't add any buffers to the water..see what happens with the extra surface aggitation and air flow from outdoors...you also may need a little bit more flow in the bottom and middle of the tank...this may clear up your problem, but you won't know if you add the buffers...glad to hear the fish is looking better...it could have just been a stress issue!!! HLLE doesn't normally start to reverse that quickly...for now, i would get the salinity down , lower the nitrates, and get the ph up......also, are you letting the salt mix thoroughly for at least 24 hrs???

 

[GigaFish]

I didnt let the salt mix for 24 hours, it was maybe an hour. But how do you let it mix? I thought once the jugs were shaken up and I couldnt see any more salt I was good.

 

[ronjeremy]

alot of people use a powerhead in their containers to mix the salt...a powerhead won't fit in my containers....i shake mine up every time i think about it and i wait at least 24 hrs before using it..if it is not mixed well, it can hurt the gills of the fish

 

[jdieck]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8790131#post8790131 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by GigaFish
I didnt let the salt mix for 24 hours, it was maybe an hour. But how do you let it mix? I thought once the jugs were shaken up and I couldnt see any more salt I was good.

Although the salt itself dissolves relatively quickly, the buffers in the mix take longer to stabilize and need also aeration, you can keep it agitated with a powerhead or just add another airston to the newly mixed water and let it aerate for 24 hours before use, that will stabilize the PH and help complete the ionic reactions needed.