PVC 101 Need a Lesson

Jason... cutting anything hollow on a table saw or miter saw with a bade that has more than a 0 set is asking for trouble (violent kickback).

I am not sure where you got your plumbing information.. but PRIMER is certainly required on pipe less than 4". Will it work without it? More than likely, but why take the chance? The primer is pure solvent and ensures that the varnish and release agents get melted through.

Bean
 
Lets put it this way. On the machines that I work on we use Locktite for water fittings that are under low pressure. Works great for sealing. At one point in time we used a primer to clean the fitting and then apply the Locktite. The solvent that we used cleaned the surface and also cut the drying time in half. So instead of waiting an hour without use it and only wait a half an hour. I would say that it may be a personal choice.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7909472#post7909472 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by BeanAnimal

I am not sure where you got your plumbing information.. but PRIMER is certainly required on pipe less than 4". Will it work without it? More than likely, but why take the chance? The primer is pure solvent and ensures that the varnish and release agents get melted through.

Bean

Check this site out all. Click on "What is a Primer"

http://members.aol.com/ezweld/newfaq.htm#WIP
 
I used to be one of those non believers myself...

3 months ago I had to cut my fathers finished basement ceiling out to replace a broken joint in the waste line for the kitchen sink... of course it was a joint that "I" did not use primer on and neglected to wipe down after glueing. It was textbook joint failure due to my slipshod gluing technique. The joint was 7 years old give or take a year.

I have also used brute force to pull apart non primered joints on 1" ball valves. Those two events have shown me the light. After doing some research on proper (and BTW APROVED) glue techniques... I am a changed gluer.

You may also want to note that failed PVC joints are a HUGE problem in industry (had a study I read someplace) and usually caused by inexperienced installers skipping primer or using poor technique.

Bean
 
The primer isn't what does the glueing. Technically the bond you're creating when joining PVC is very similar to working with acrylic as the cement actually melts the PVC so that when it dries you wind up with one piece. The primer is an etchant/degreaser that removes all the dirt, oil, and ink and etches the surfaces to be joined so that the cement will more readily absorb into the PVC and melt it properly. Clean the outer diameter of the pipe and the inside of the fitting with the primer and let it dry (read the bottle). Don't touch the primered surfaces as the oils in your skin can get where you just cleaned. Then take the cement and apply it liberally to the outside of the pipe, then to the inside of the fitting, then once more to the outside of the pipe and join the pieces while twisting a quarter turn. hold the pieces together for 20-30 seconds so they don't come back apart. That's how you're "supposed" to do it according to the cement/primer instructions. IMO, I'd listen to them before anyone else since it is their product... In my personal experience, I've never used primer on anything for my tank, although had I known about the clear primer I probably would have. BUT, I've never had one single leak from a cemented fitting, and I probably have 20-30 of them. For pipe 2" or larger as stated above, you really should use the primer.

One last think, make sure you're using the proper cement/primer combinations for the type of pipe you're using and what you're cementing it to. The general purpose stuff is fine for regular white schedule 40, but if you're going to cement it to acrylic or some other plastic, there's a kind of weld-on that is much better. Just read the bottles and you'll be fine.

Oh, and keep a window open with a fan or do it outside. The fumes are nasty (and flamable from what I've read).
 
My info comes from City Codes. When I installed my parents sprinkler system about 8 years ago i got a huge bunch of crap from the city on the proper way doing it and what was required for them to say it was ok. (Required documentation for selling of any house in Florida) Anything less than 4" didnt require any sort of primer.

The chop mitre saw works fine with the pvc, although I wont cut anything bigger than 2" on it. A new sharp blade worked the best, and slow cuts too. Always wear PPE when working with ANY tools!

Jasen
 
i only use primer where there is real pressure. normal aquarium plumbing is under no real pressure. i do use it though when plumbing pumps that can push 30'+.
 
Jason... City codes are not always rooted in best practice. Not to mention that most city codes are now (or will be soon) BOCA uniform codes, and colored primer must be used. That said I have never heard the 4" thing (I have heard 2" from some folks). I am not at all saying you are wrong. I was just taught different (family member is a journeyman plumber, but thats not saying much... and our local codes are different).

Like I said, the pipe I had fail was a simple white schedule 40 PVC drain that was under no fluid pressure or physical stress (EVER). It was not ever snaked, nor were any chemicals every used in it. Just water and soapsuds.

I think of you talk to a few plumbers you will find that most (all) leaks are due to bad glue joints.

I am sure you can get away without primer. I was just answering the question "correctly" or "best practice" wise.

With regard to letting it dry (the primer) I am not sure what the can (or the brand you read was). But I have always been told that the primer should never be let to dry (it partly defeats the purpose). Someplace I have a link to a trade forum where the heavy hitters answer this question a lot, much like do here with the basic questions of reef newbies).
 
Guys here is a good link...

http://www.finishing.com/Library/cementingPVC.html

As I remeber this guy was also a frequent contributor to MasterPlumber.COM and his advice seemed to sit will with the rest of the folks in the know. It pretty much matches what I was taught, so the guy who taught me must have been somewhat well trained. I just wish I would have not taken the shortucts years ago on the kitchen remodel...
 
But wouldn't code depend on which city and STATE you live in. Just like electric code. Not all states and cities are the same. So in essence it still doesn't mean its required or not. I think its still up to that person. If they want a good joint or not.
 
Code has no bearing on your aquarium anyway (unless of course your silly enough to call and get it inspected... local GOVT would be glad to charge you for the permit and inspection...)

Local codes are an strange subject.... but my point was that most (ALL) "local code" will all be BOCA uniform building codes (a complete scam really). One of the "pros" of the system is that it makes all codes UNIFORM.

Local electric codes MUST at least meat NEC requiremetns, but can go on and above them (but not contradict them.... though it happens all the time)

Hope that makes sense....

for your project it does not matter... do as you feel comfortable. You asked, and I have tried to provide the "correct" answer, not the "well us DIY guys do it this way" answer.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7915654#post7915654 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by BeanAnimal

for your project it does not matter... do as you feel comfortable. You asked, and I have tried to provide the "correct" answer, not the "well us DIY guys do it this way" answer.

I wasn't trying to contradict what you were saying, I appreciate all thoughts and all explanations, and thats what I was doing on my part.

Thanks all....
 
I am sorry if that comment did not come over the right way; the meaning was simply that you SHOULD do as you feel comfortable, as the end result will likely be suitable for you aquarium :)

We all may not agree on the fine details.... but for the most part it should not matter in your situation. In addition, you have been given some good info that goes far beyond what a DIY guy would know.
 
In Bean's defense about the primer:

From: http://www.oatey.com/faq.asp

8. Should primer or primer/cleaner be allowed to dry before applying solvent cement?
Because the primers will soften the pipe surface, it is important to apply cement to the pipe and fittings while the primer is still wet for maximum bond strength.



And to reiterate.... just because we get away with plumbing our systems using non-standard practices, that doesnt mean that building codes arent there for a completely different reason.

Rarely do any of our pumps put out much more than 5-10 PSI. However residential plumbing must take 40 PSI steady state & hundreds of PSI in water hammer situations.

Were comparing apples ( code ) to oranges ( reef systems ).

Stu
 
It says nothing on either the Purple Primer or PVC cement cans (Oatey Brand) about applying cement while the primer is still wet.

Interesting that the site and the product have different information. It had always been my impression to use the cement while the primer was still wet.
 
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