QT and copper treatment questions

[Reefer07]

So I'm setting up a QT tank today after my last experience with ich/whatever disease it was. My main tank has been fallow for 5 weeks now and I figure after I let this QT tank cycle for a week or 2, then add fish and QT for 4+ weeks there will be a very unlikely chance of ich in my DT. I am setting up a 20 long for QT with a few pieces of LR i have and big PVC. My DT is a 90 and biggest fish will be a kole tang.
My stocking list when done is somthing like this:
Kole Tang
Pair of clowns
Leopard wrasse
Black cap basslet
Either a pair of cardinals or 5-7 chromis
Thats really it except maybe a goby or blenny at some point. Maybe a mandarin down the road.
Anyways:
1. What copper would be best to use? I have read different opinions about types of copper being chelated or ionic and problems with accurate testing.
This brings me to:
2. What test kit will measure best or is easiest to read/most accurate?
Anyone used red sea? API and salifert had bad reviews.
3. Since it is a newer tank I would like the idea of running purigen but would that remove any of the copper or is it a good idea? Like I said I will let the tank semi cycle for a week or two, testing everyday. I am using a few pieces of well established LR.
Thanks for any replies and add in anything else I may need to know.

 

[Spar]

IMO/E: go with Cupramine and use the Seachem testkit also

Don't use LR in a tank that will have copper. It will absorb some of the copper, keeping you from having the consistency you want. Really no need to cycle a QT, but if you want it to be a continuos running system, then may as well. Otherwise, just seed it with some bacteria-in-a-bottle product and keep up with waterchanges. Remember though that you cannot use ammonia detox when running copper in a system... so keep an eye on ammonia levels.

For QT's, KISS is the key. Just keep it bare (no sand), minimal equipment being just a powerhead and/or airpump and a heater.

How many fish do you plan on being in the 20g QT at a single point in time? Keep that minimal as well.

If you haven't already, read up on Tank Transfer Method (TTM) as an alternate option to copper. Easier on the fish, and is as much of a fool-proof method as possible. But, only treats Ich, not velvet/brook.

 

[snorvich]

IMO/E: go with Cupramine and use the Seachem testkit also

Don't use LR in a tank that will have copper. It will absorb some of the copper, keeping you from having the consistency you want. Really no need to cycle a QT, but if you want it to be a continuos running system, then may as well. Otherwise, just seed it with some bacteria-in-a-bottle product and keep up with waterchanges. Remember though that you cannot use ammonia detox when running copper in a system... so keep an eye on ammonia levels.

For QT's, KISS is the key. Just keep it bare (no sand), minimal equipment being just a powerhead and/or airpump and a heater.

How many fish do you plan on being in the 20g QT at a single point in time? Keep that minimal as well.

If you haven't already, read up on Tank Transfer Method (TTM) as an alternate option to copper. Easier on the fish, and is as much of a fool-proof method as possible. But, only treats Ich, not velvet/brook.

What he said. So eloquently.

 

[goncharkina]

I lost my Koran angel because of some sort of itch, e had one thing after another, had to quarantine him and treated with everything possible, still did not help. Any experience with Kanaplex?

 

[Deinonych]

Kanaplex is great for bacterial infections, but that's it. It won't treat ectoparasite infections.

 

[snorvich]

Kanaplex is great for bacterial infections, but that's it. It won't treat ectoparasite infections.

Correct.

 

[Reefer07]

Wait so if I have a fish with Ich and do TTM i just wait till the ich falls off and transfer to DT?
I am not setting up a 3rd tank.....
And ya, in a 20 long I plan on doing no more than a couple fish at a time.
I.E.- tang and basslet, then clowns, then wrasse and watever else, so on so forth.

***Also, I know that it says to put the cupramine in 2 seperate days to reach the level needed to treat. I know the QT/treatment process doesnt start until the correct copper level is there and all fish are in but can I add the copper in with fish already in QT?
And with no rock/substrate or anything will the tank ever be "cycled" in the sense that there is bacteria to eat up ammonia and nitrites? Or just keep up on water changes? I am a tedius tester, and spend a lot of time with my tanks everyday so i dont mind testing everyday if I keep having to add copper. I got a couple nice 3/4" PVC Y and T for hiding.

 

[snorvich]

Wait so if I have a fish with Ich and do TTM i just wait till the ich falls off and transfer to DT?
I am not setting up a 3rd tank.....
And ya, in a 20 long I plan on doing no more than a couple fish at a time.
I.E.- tang and basslet, then clowns, then wrasse and watever else, so on so forth.

To be clear. Your display tank needs to be without fish for 72 days. Tank transfer is not a "wait until the ich falls off" solution, it is a process which must be followed properly. Tank transfer requires two separate tanks and the one not being used must be cleaned, dried and reestablished for the next cycle. The display tank will not be one of the two tanks being used.

Where are you going to keep the fish while the display tank is fallow for 72 days?

 

[Spar]

can I add the copper in with fish already in QT?

You will start adding the copper with the fish already in it. Not prior. This is why you need to go slow, so that the copper increases slowly for the fish. Too much at once is proven to impact them negatively.

And with no rock/substrate or anything will the tank ever be "cycled" in the sense that there is bacteria to eat up ammonia and nitrites? Or just keep up on water changes? I am a tedius tester, and spend a lot of time with my tanks everyday so i dont mind testing everyday if I keep having to add copper. I got a couple nice 3/4" PVC Y and T for hiding.

This is where copper gets a little more complicated IMO/E. If you have an ammonia spike, your only choice is to do water changes, which may or not resolve the ammonia issue. You can add in bacteria-in-a-bottle to help, but won't necessarily do all the work for you. You can also add in a seeded sponge filter at the beginning.

You don't need sand or rock for a cycle to complete. All that rock and sand helps with (in terms of a cycle) is bio-load. The more fish you have the more surface area you need for the amount of bacteria required for your bio-load; porous rock is nice for this. So in a QT, if you only have a couple fish in a reasonable amount of water (even as low as 10g's), the surface area of the glass tank is generally plenty if you keep up waterchanges and remove waste that settles at the bottom.

 

[Reefer07]

I dont believe in that bacteria in a bottle haha
Anyways, my DT has already been fallow for 32 days as of today. I figure once I get a couple fish to QT (prolly this weekend) they'll go in the 20L for quarantine for the next 40ish days....once I pass that 72 day fallow mark. Hopefully they arent even sick so they'll be ready to go in on that 73rd day. 40ish days in a QT tank isnt too long right?
I have read the stickies and it looks like most say 2-8 weeks. If the fish look good with no problems after 2 weeks is it really ok to put them in DT? I always thought 30 at least just to be safe.

 

[snorvich]

I dont believe in that bacteria in a bottle haha
Anyways, my DT has already been fallow for 32 days as of today. I figure once I get a couple fish to QT (prolly this weekend) they'll go in the 20L for quarantine for the next 40ish days....once I pass that 72 day fallow mark. Hopefully they arent even sick so they'll be ready to go in on that 73rd day. 40ish days in a QT tank isnt too long right?
I have read the stickies and it looks like most say 2-8 weeks. If the fish look good with no problems after 2 weeks is it really ok to put them in DT? I always thought 30 at least just to be safe.

No. If you do tank transfer plus an additional 19 days of observation on new fish, you are good to go. If you are curing ich in existing fish that for sure do not have velvet, tank transfer will do it.

 

[snorvich]

I have read the stickies and it looks like most say 2-8 weeks. If the fish look good with no problems after 2 weeks is it really ok to put them in DT? I always thought 30 at least just to be safe.

There is only one sticky that says 2-8 weeks and that one is not right. Also, visible signs of ich are not a good way to measure fish health. For new fish you will need to observe including tank transfer for at least 4 weeks.

 

[Reefer07]

So completely quarantine a couple fish for the remainder of my DTs fallow period should do the trick.

 

[Reefer07]

Quick question. Hopefully someone reads this so I dont start another thread even though this ones dead. I got my fish this weekend and my QT was at 1.023 sg and so was the lfs water so it was a easy acclimation for the fish.
Anyways, I obviously keep my DT reef at 1.025 sg. I do want to drop the QT down to .020 or even .019 cuz I know its easier on the fish. In a month or so should I just slowly bring the sg of the QT up to 1.025 before I put him in DT? Or should I just drip acclimate him like a new fish.
Or perhaps is this even a good idea to drop down the salt more? The only reason I'm saying i want to is because its easier on the fish for breathing and such. In my QT I just have one of those simple sponge filters hooked up with an airline and pump attached to it.

 

[tylersarah]

If you need to medicate, it's best and necessary in some situations to be at a higher salinity. You can decrease relatively quickly, but as you stated an increase must be taken slowly, .001-.002/day is recommended, I have increased with a drip faster. As long as there is proper water movement and an airstone when medicating, fish do not require a lower salinity.

 

[Spar]

i also dont think you need to lower the salinity. but if you do, just gradually increase it like tylersarah said, prior to them eventually going into your DT. drip acclimation back to your DT level may very well work just fine, but there is no need to put your fish through that stress; doubtful you would have an issue though.