QT Disaster

[Badbrad8500]

I've had 10 fish (Yellow Tang, Blue Sided Wrasse, 3 Cardinals, 2 Chromis, 2 Clowns, and a Filefish in a 29g QT tank for 5 weeks now.

First I started seeing my Yellow Tang exhibit signs of HLLE 2 week ago, which I can probably attribute to low grade carbon in the HOB filter pads. I then saw it in my Chromis (same as YT, on head).

Then just yesterday I notice my black clown covered in weird white bumps. I followed the Tank Transfer Method to the tee 5 weeks ago and haven't noticed any ich at all, I'm hoping it may be flukes?

I started PraziPro yesterday, 2 tsp worth and now my wrasse looks bad. He's swimming occasionally but spends most of his time on the bottom just sitting.

I also noticed a red mark on the side of one of my Chromis that looks JUST like the Uronema Marinus pictures.

Please help!! I need a diagnosis...I do have Chloroquine Phosphate that I may try as a last resort, but I've read wrasses usually don't survive it and it may be useless anyway if my main tank is infested with Uronema.

The QT is at 1.026 salinity, 78°F, Ammonia is 0 but Nitrate and Nitrite are high. I did a 90% water change a week ago and it barely moved the Nitrate/Nitrite levels. I'm dosing Prazi right now, should I do another 90% WC or let the Prazi go for 2 more days and then do the water change?

Thanks in advance,

Brad

 

[dweber618]

First - that's a LOT of fish for one small QT and is probably causing most of your problems.

1. Your clownfish looks like it has brook, which can be treated with formalin dips.
2. I think I've seen before that wrasses can be sensitive to prazi pro.
3. The chromis looks like uronema.

Best case scenario would be to split the fish up and try to treat individually. I don't think you are going to have much success trying to treat all of the fish at once with so many different illnesses happening at the same time. I learned the hard way QT'ing multiple fish is difficult and stressful on fish - now I only QT one, max two fish each go around.

Best of luck!

 

[snorvich]

First - that's a LOT of fish for one small QT and is probably causing most of your problems.

1. Your clownfish looks like it has brook, which can be treated with formalin dips.
2. I think I've seen before that wrasses can be sensitive to prazi pro.
3. The chromis looks like uronema.

Best case scenario would be to split the fish up and try to treat individually. I don't think you are going to have much success trying to treat all of the fish at once with so many different illnesses happening at the same time. I learned the hard way QT'ing multiple fish is difficult and stressful on fish - now I only QT one, max two fish each go around.

Best of luck!

I agree. Bolding added.

 

[snorvich]

Also, I recommend avoiding chromis due to high rate of uronema.

 

[ThRoewer]

The tang has HLLE (do you use activated carbon in your filter? It has been shown to cause this)

The Chromis have an active Uronema infection.

The clownfish have an active Brooklynella infection.

You have to assume that all fish in that tank have latent Brooklynella and Uronema infections.

As a result ALL fish need to be treated against ALL these infections with daily formalin dips followed by a tank transfer.
Uronema may also be treated with a double dose of Chloroquine Phosphate. This will also kill Amyloodinium (velvet), but it does nothing against Brooklynella.

 

[ThRoewer]

BTW: giving all fish a formalin dip before they go into the QT would have likely avoided this situation. It should be the standard procedure for all new fish.

 

[snorvich]

The tang has HLLE (do you use activated carbon in your filter? It has been shown to cause this)

The Chromis have an active Uronema infection.

The clownfish have an active Brooklynella infection.

You have to assume that all fish in that tank have latent Brooklynella and Uronema infections.

As a result ALL fish need to be treated against ALL these infections with daily formalin dips followed by a tank transfer.
Uronema may also be treated with a double dose of Chloroquine Phosphate. This will also kill Amyloodinium (velvet), but it does nothing against Brooklynella.

I agree with all except "Uronema may also be treated with a double dose of Chloroquine Phosphate" which is not proven.

 

[jbvdhp]

BTW: giving all fish a formalin dip before they go into the QT would have likely avoided this situation. It should be the standard procedure for all new fish.

Yup. Learned this the hard way

 

[Badbrad8500]

Wow, thanks all so much. Points taken:

Divide fish into one or two per tank for QT.

No more Chromis....ever.

Formalin dip all new fish (Safe for sensitive fish?)

Chloroquine for the Chromis

 

[snorvich]

Wow, thanks all so much. Points taken:

Divide fish into one or two per tank for QT.

yes

No more Chromis....ever.

that would be my advice

Formalin dip all new fish (Safe for sensitive fish?)

yes, followed by tank transfer

Chloroquine for the Chromis

You can try it . . .

 

[snorvich]

And you will have to sterilize current QT

 

[Badbrad8500]

Questions:

For any new fish I acquire; how many fish realistically can be quarantined in a 29g? For those of you that buy online, how do you quarantine 10+ fish? Multiple 20-40g tanks?

For the main display tank, all diseased fish were taken out for ich about 5 weeks ago. I've read that Uronema is a permanent fixture, but Brook will be gone after I wait my 10 weeks?

Would you all just recommend starting over with the display? What about the coral? Cleaner shrimp, etc.?

 

[snorvich]

Questions:

For any new fish I acquire; how many fish realistically can be quarantined in a 29g? For those of you that buy online, how do you quarantine 10+ fish? Multiple 20-40g tanks?

For the main display tank, all diseased fish were taken out for ich about 5 weeks ago. I've read that Uronema is a permanent fixture, but Brook will be gone after I wait my 10 weeks?

Would you all just recommend starting over with the display? What about the coral? Cleaner shrimp, etc.?

If the chromis were in the display tank, you will have to sterilize and restart. You should not be trying to introduce/purchase more than two fish.

 

[Badbrad8500]

I've read your TTM method write up which is what I used 5 weeks ago to hopefully cure these fish of ich (definitely doesn't look like ich, right?). It was great! I do need to read your other write ups it seems.

Do you have an all-encompassing QT write-up I could reference? It's frustrating to read online that this medication works great for this type of fish, but can kill this other type of fish. Are there specific meds I can used for preventive measures for all new fish? How do you QT tangs vs wrasses vs butterflies, etc.?

Thanks,

Brad

 

[Badbrad8500]

If the chromis were in the display tank, you will have to sterilize and restart. You should not be trying to introduce/purchase more than two fish.

Appreciate it. This is all from short QT times (3 weeks). Time to empty 400 gallons : (

 

[dweber618]

Make sure your water is well aerated for the formalin dips. Read up on the forums about each treatment method - the formalin dips are really easy to execute, just keep an eye on your fish and if it looks stressed then remove it. Make sure the fish go back into NEW clean water after each dip.

 

[ThRoewer]

I agree with all except "Uronema may also be treated with a double dose of Chloroquine Phosphate" which is not proven.

That's why I said "may". Though there was a preliminary study where CP has been shown to kill Uronema on dead fish at double the standard dose.
So there is a reasonable chance that it can be used for treating live fish as well. It would definitely be worth a try, especially since it will also be entering the fish's bloodstream and stay effective there - something that is not achievable with formalin.

 

[Badbrad8500]

Thanks guys. Appreciate all the info.

 

[krullshards]

Questions:

For any new fish I acquire; how many fish realistically can be quarantined in a 29g? For those of you that buy online, how do you quarantine 10+ fish? Multiple 20-40g tanks?

For the main display tank, all diseased fish were taken out for ich about 5 weeks ago. I've read that Uronema is a permanent fixture, but Brook will be gone after I wait my 10 weeks?

Would you all just recommend starting over with the display? What about the coral? Cleaner shrimp, etc.?

I think generally folks that are adding more fish than 1 or 2 at a time have multiple quarantine tanks that are independent of each other (not connected to a common sump, etc) that way if one fish has a catastrophic infection the others don't get it.

Generally though it is recommended to slowly add fish to your DT because the biofilter often has to catch up to the new bioload.

What a "safe" number is probably depends on a number of factors.

In the past ThRoewer has said that with Uronema infections all corals and inverts need to be culled or that display has to remain an all coral tank (no fish ever). I have found nothing that contradicts this, honestly. It's pretty scary to be in that situation.

 

[Badbrad8500]

*my question was just answered above ^^^^*