Queen Angel coloring

pinnatus

King Kennard
Premium Member
So this is my Queen Angel when I got it maybe 6 months ago.
4tiD5esl.jpg

Here it is today.
It lost its beautiful blue color. Wonder why?
qRfANJIl.jpg


To me, possibilities are:

Diet

My tank was opaque for many months due to a bacterial bloom so maybe that had something to do with it - possible lighting?

Or possibly a sex change thing?
 
My guess is diet. I suppose it could be changing sex, what other angels are in the tank and what sex? (if you can tell)
 
A beauty like that would only get LRS Herbivore or Reef Frenzy from me. I feed both and have no problem getting a 2" Imperator juvenile to go to a 6" changing adult in a year. I am on my second Imp doing this, so I know it is the food. Plus my Regal Angels love the stuff too.
 
The only other angel until just recently is a small Rock Beauty. I put a new juvi Koran in a couple of weeks ago, but the color on the Queen had already changed by then.

Alton - I also have had emps go from juvi to adults in a year. the actual change took 6 months. I had a pair at the time.

I still have a suspicion that it was due to the murkiness of the water for 6 months. If so, though, I would expect the blue to start coming back again now that my water is cleared up.

I have seen other Queens that are yellow, maybe it is a maturation thing?
 
Angels need more algae in their diet than most think, with that said it may or may not have any baring on why the blue has left. Most queens I have seen in person were yellow, the only ones I see that have the blue were in the wild.
 
Here is a picture of mine from 2004 in my 200 that I raised from a sub-adult. The color was better as a sub-adult but the food we had to choose from back then was not as good as today. No coral was safe with this guy, not even GSP. I have tried several others since but none have ever stayed away from corals.
 

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Holacanthus-yellow_zps51qkkjkr.gif

from Lemon

"A very unusual yellow Holacanthus angelfish has turned up at B-Box Aquarium which is not quite a queen angelfish although it does bear some traits of the Rock Beauty angelfish, Holacanthus tricolor. The Queen Angelfish (H. ciliaris) is a staple import from the Atlantic. Fully grown adults are typically blue-green with hints of yellow. Adorned with long trailing filaments and a blue crown on its nape, the common name is aptly quite fitting for this fish. The beauty and grace coupled with its relative ease in captivity makes it arguably the representative member for the Holacanthus genus.

Hybrids and aberrations for H. ciliaris do naturally occur. The species readily hybridises with H. bermudensis in the wild, giving rise to the familiar Townsend’s angelfish. H. ciliaris also very rarely form hybrids with H. tricolor, with only a few specimens ever seen. As with hybridization, aberrations within this particular species is not abnormal. The most famous examples of aberrant Queen Angelfishes are perhaps those from St. Paul’s Rocks in Brazil. Specimens there run the gamut from being pure blue, resembling the Clipperton Angelfish, to all Yellow, all white, Koi, and practically anywhere in between.

The yellow Holacanthus that you see interlacing this post was recently acquired by B-Box Aquarium in Japan. The highlighter yellow colouration of this individual is truly spectacular. Specimens that are typically bright yellow like this are usually xanthic morphs with abnormally yellow colouration. Such individuals tend to revert back to their natural colours after awhile in captivity. However, with the existance of amazingly mutated Queen Angelfishes living in St. Paul’s Rocks, the possibility that this sub-adult individual could be a waif from some far flung isolated reef in the Atlantic is not all that impossible."



"One of the issues with ‘Koi’ and xanthic fish, is that they often change with time in the aquarium; in some cases reverting back to a classic color scheme more in keeping with their kin. Unusual color morphs, being rare and in turn highly desirable, do not always make for good value for money, if your prized mutant is going to change back to a bog standard example of its species!

This being the case, we must look past striking and stable genetic mutations like true piebaldism, and instead question environment, and possibly the specific physiological factors affecting the aberrantly colored individual, as in the case of a fish with vitiligo!

The most frequently encountered color pigments in fish are melanins, carotenoids, and purines. Purines (mostly guanine) are structural colors- crystalline substances that produce the sheen and reflective qualities of fish skin through interplay with light. But it is the melanins and carotenoids that give us the range of yellows to blacks when found in different combinations.

The production of these pigments would be down to the fish’s diet, while the utilization of these pigments is controlled by the fish’s nervous and endocrine systems. The chromatophores, pigment holding cells in the dermis, dictating the spread, or concentration of pigment in localized areas, respond to environmental, and in turn hormonal cues.

Therefore, perhaps fishes sporting ‘Koi’ coloration have a combination of dietary deficiency contributing to loss of one ‘channel’ of color pigmentation, or localized disruption to areas of chromatophores? In people, vitiligo manifests in the loss of melanin in the skin, but in the skin of a fish, with a greater interplay of pigments, perhaps we are seeing a greater variability of outcomes.

Stress, illness, physical trauma, or some other environmental factor, could be leading to the muting, so to speak, of part of their color scheme? Drop out the melanins from a multicolored fish, and we are left with a xanthic individual. Drop the carotenoids and adjust the purines, and we can encounter the blue morphs, most commonly seen in C. bicolor, C. bispinosus and C. potteri.

This could be the reason why the ‘Koi’ coloration is unstable, and changes or reverts over time. Environmental factors are subject to change and often in a state of flux, whereas in a condition like piebaldism, there is a genetic blank, with unpigmented areas left barren indefinitely. A fish with a most human-like case of vitiligo, may, like the aberrant Centropyge, exhibit white patches. But other fishes, tricolor scopas tangs spring to mind, may be showing symptoms of a different magnitude, but of the same condition.

One suggestion as to why angels have adopted a xanthic coloration has been offered due to breeding. Of course many species of fish take on nuptial dress, but it was suggested (by F. Walsh in the Debelius, Tanaka, Kuiter, 2003 book on Angelfishes) that aberrant xanthic morphs of Centropyge bicolor appear at certain times of the year during the peak of spawning. However, if this was the case, surely aberrant individuals would be more greatly noted?

It seems unlikely that such unusual nuptial coloration would manifest in just a handful of individuals, in just a few species of what could be considered a closely related family. However, perhaps collecting pressure, having removed specimens that kept to an archetypal colour scheme, has left fish that display less than perfect colors to breed, raising the percentage of potentially aberrant genetics, and the propensity for a particular fish to exhibit variable coloration.
This theory has been put forward as to the apparent increase in aberrantly colored surgeonfish, and is certainly a plausible one in that case. I think it would be really interesting if the abundance and collection of these fishes, with their appearance in the trade, was noted, against data on their spawning activity, as this seems a good area for study.

In regards to my London piebald angel, we are still unsure as to what species it actually is. C. flavissima is typically a bright lemon yellow fish with blue highlights around the eyes, fin margins and operculum. There seem to be remnants of these on our aberrant individual. At the same time, there is a strong argument for it being a C. heraldi, due to its facial profile, as well as the eye coloration. There is even the possibility of a C. flavissima x heraldi hybrid, upon which case, in regards to colouration, anything goes. It has certainly been observed that female C. flavissima change color to almost white during courtship and spawning.

In the case of this aberrant individual, the strong white patches, if caused by piebaldism, should remain that way. In the case of fish vitiligo, they may spread! Only time will tell. As so often is the case with these Centropyge color morphs, only time will tell."
from Jane
 
Angelfish also consume a high amount of sponge in the wild. You could try to add some frozen foods that have sponge in them. I'm not sure if LRS does to be honest as I don't currently have any angels (so I don't pay attention to sponge content). But in the past I have fed the Angel Formula 1 and 2 and the colors were always great. Never had a Queen though...
 
Holacanthus-yellow_zps51qkkjkr.gif

from Lemon

"A very unusual yellow Holacanthus angelfish has turned up at B-Box Aquarium which is not quite a queen angelfish although it does bear some traits of the Rock Beauty angelfish, Holacanthus tricolor. The Queen Angelfish (H. ciliaris) is a staple import from the Atlantic. Fully grown adults are typically blue-green with hints of yellow. Adorned with long trailing filaments and a blue crown on its nape, the common name is aptly quite fitting for this fish. The beauty and grace coupled with its relative ease in captivity makes it arguably the representative member for the Holacanthus genus.

Hybrids and aberrations for H. ciliaris do naturally occur. The species readily hybridises with H. bermudensis in the wild, giving rise to the familiar Townsend’s angelfish. H. ciliaris also very rarely form hybrids with H. tricolor, with only a few specimens ever seen. As with hybridization, aberrations within this particular species is not abnormal. The most famous examples of aberrant Queen Angelfishes are perhaps those from St. Paul’s Rocks in Brazil. Specimens there run the gamut from being pure blue, resembling the Clipperton Angelfish, to all Yellow, all white, Koi, and practically anywhere in between.

The yellow Holacanthus that you see interlacing this post was recently acquired by B-Box Aquarium in Japan. The highlighter yellow colouration of this individual is truly spectacular. Specimens that are typically bright yellow like this are usually xanthic morphs with abnormally yellow colouration. Such individuals tend to revert back to their natural colours after awhile in captivity. However, with the existance of amazingly mutated Queen Angelfishes living in St. Paul’s Rocks, the possibility that this sub-adult individual could be a waif from some far flung isolated reef in the Atlantic is not all that impossible."



"One of the issues with ‘Koi’ and xanthic fish, is that they often change with time in the aquarium; in some cases reverting back to a classic color scheme more in keeping with their kin. Unusual color morphs, being rare and in turn highly desirable, do not always make for good value for money, if your prized mutant is going to change back to a bog standard example of its species!

This being the case, we must look past striking and stable genetic mutations like true piebaldism, and instead question environment, and possibly the specific physiological factors affecting the aberrantly colored individual, as in the case of a fish with vitiligo!

The most frequently encountered color pigments in fish are melanins, carotenoids, and purines. Purines (mostly guanine) are structural colors- crystalline substances that produce the sheen and reflective qualities of fish skin through interplay with light. But it is the melanins and carotenoids that give us the range of yellows to blacks when found in different combinations.

The production of these pigments would be down to the fish’s diet, while the utilization of these pigments is controlled by the fish’s nervous and endocrine systems. The chromatophores, pigment holding cells in the dermis, dictating the spread, or concentration of pigment in localized areas, respond to environmental, and in turn hormonal cues.

Therefore, perhaps fishes sporting ‘Koi’ coloration have a combination of dietary deficiency contributing to loss of one ‘channel’ of color pigmentation, or localized disruption to areas of chromatophores? In people, vitiligo manifests in the loss of melanin in the skin, but in the skin of a fish, with a greater interplay of pigments, perhaps we are seeing a greater variability of outcomes.

Stress, illness, physical trauma, or some other environmental factor, could be leading to the muting, so to speak, of part of their color scheme? Drop out the melanins from a multicolored fish, and we are left with a xanthic individual. Drop the carotenoids and adjust the purines, and we can encounter the blue morphs, most commonly seen in C. bicolor, C. bispinosus and C. potteri.

This could be the reason why the ‘Koi’ coloration is unstable, and changes or reverts over time. Environmental factors are subject to change and often in a state of flux, whereas in a condition like piebaldism, there is a genetic blank, with unpigmented areas left barren indefinitely. A fish with a most human-like case of vitiligo, may, like the aberrant Centropyge, exhibit white patches. But other fishes, tricolor scopas tangs spring to mind, may be showing symptoms of a different magnitude, but of the same condition.

One suggestion as to why angels have adopted a xanthic coloration has been offered due to breeding. Of course many species of fish take on nuptial dress, but it was suggested (by F. Walsh in the Debelius, Tanaka, Kuiter, 2003 book on Angelfishes) that aberrant xanthic morphs of Centropyge bicolor appear at certain times of the year during the peak of spawning. However, if this was the case, surely aberrant individuals would be more greatly noted?

It seems unlikely that such unusual nuptial coloration would manifest in just a handful of individuals, in just a few species of what could be considered a closely related family. However, perhaps collecting pressure, having removed specimens that kept to an archetypal colour scheme, has left fish that display less than perfect colors to breed, raising the percentage of potentially aberrant genetics, and the propensity for a particular fish to exhibit variable coloration.
This theory has been put forward as to the apparent increase in aberrantly colored surgeonfish, and is certainly a plausible one in that case. I think it would be really interesting if the abundance and collection of these fishes, with their appearance in the trade, was noted, against data on their spawning activity, as this seems a good area for study.

In regards to my London piebald angel, we are still unsure as to what species it actually is. C. flavissima is typically a bright lemon yellow fish with blue highlights around the eyes, fin margins and operculum. There seem to be remnants of these on our aberrant individual. At the same time, there is a strong argument for it being a C. heraldi, due to its facial profile, as well as the eye coloration. There is even the possibility of a C. flavissima x heraldi hybrid, upon which case, in regards to colouration, anything goes. It has certainly been observed that female C. flavissima change color to almost white during courtship and spawning.

In the case of this aberrant individual, the strong white patches, if caused by piebaldism, should remain that way. In the case of fish vitiligo, they may spread! Only time will tell. As so often is the case with these Centropyge color morphs, only time will tell."
from Jane

Que the Angel Master. This is very in depth and full of great information!
 
Ted- I believe it came from Florida.

Interesting read in attached article. Diet seems to be the most reasonable explanation.
 
I love my queen Angel and I have kept several over the years. One thing I've learned to keep the colors is to give it plenty of space. I'm finding that to be successful and the food source can just be a quality pallet and that's about it. Of course there are the occasionally or weekly frozen feeds, but I just found giving it enough space to be dominate, like many other dominate fish, is the way to do it.


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Ted- I believe it came from Florida.

Interesting read in attached article. Diet seems to be the most reasonable explanation.

lol, found it, you nailed it, the bacterial bloom...

"On the other hand, keeping the brilliant color and characteristic appearance from juveniles of Holacanthus ciliaris is difficult. The water condition, light condition, and food affect the color of Holacanthus ciliaris. Vivid blue individuals lose the blue color, and turn yellow under poor conditions."
from Kiyoshi.
 
Well, if that's the case, then hopefully the color should return soon. That would be nice. I thought it was the most spectacularly colored Queens I had ever seen when I got it. Yellow is OK, but it was much better before.
 
Would I be Naive to mention Lighting ?
Seemed like feeding was heathy and varied ...so ....
Just an off cuff comment ...
Gar

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The lighting itself was always the same, on the same time schedule. However, the opacity caused by the bacterial bloom may have decreased the lighting enough that it could be a factor. That is why I started this thread. Clearly something has caused the color change, whether it is outside influences such as poor water quality (though other than the opacity, I think the water quality was fine from a chemistry standpoint), diet, the fish maturing or adapting, or some other influence. I am (still) at a loss as to what is the actual cause.
 
lol, found it, you nailed it, the bacterial bloom...

"On the other hand, keeping the brilliant color and characteristic appearance from juveniles of Holacanthus ciliaris is difficult. The water condition, light condition, and food affect the color of Holacanthus ciliaris. Vivid blue individuals lose the blue color, and turn yellow under poor conditions."
from Kiyoshi.

I think it was it was a bit of everything and +1 on things working themselves out when the tank is balanced.

All- Kiyoshi's (the guy I quoted here) book is killer, if you like angels, lol, and pictures of angels...
 
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