Fanof49ASU
Premium Member
Why is it better to 'hard plumb' if at all possible....instead of using the flexible tubing?
Can the flexible tubing be used safely?
Can the flexible tubing be used safely?
Question about plumbing
- Thread starter Fanof49ASU
- Start date
crumbletop
New member
Yes, flexible tubing can be used safely. I use it on part of my return plumbing. The issues are typically the following:
1) The tubing stiffens over time and can end up leaking around the hose barb, or popping off the hose barb so you need to make sure it is clamped very well. stainless steel clamps will rust.
2) Typically, hose barbs reduce the diameter of the tubing creating more resistance against the flow, which may or may not be desirable.
Benefits are easier positioning of stuff like return pumps (you don't have to be as precise with the cuts), less vibration noise transmitted along the pipes.
Spaflex gets over the two drawbacks but it is not as flexible as vinyl tubing.
When using either, make sure you put some unions in line. Those things are must haves.
1) The tubing stiffens over time and can end up leaking around the hose barb, or popping off the hose barb so you need to make sure it is clamped very well. stainless steel clamps will rust.
2) Typically, hose barbs reduce the diameter of the tubing creating more resistance against the flow, which may or may not be desirable.
Benefits are easier positioning of stuff like return pumps (you don't have to be as precise with the cuts), less vibration noise transmitted along the pipes.
Spaflex gets over the two drawbacks but it is not as flexible as vinyl tubing.
When using either, make sure you put some unions in line. Those things are must haves.
gflat65
New member
I used to use all braided PVC for connections, but am slowly switching to solid with some braided at connections to dampen vibration. I'm always afraid that I'm going to break the bulkhead/fitting/glass when I'm trying to get the braided over nipples (on or off). Solid is much neater, too (no sag that comes naturally with aging
).
).Fanof49ASU
Premium Member
Thanks for the replies.
Would the resistance of 'reducing the diameter of the tubing' be as much as a 90 degree turn (in hard pipe)?
I'm trying to figure out flow in my 'distant future upgrade/merging of the nano's'.
Fanof49ASU
Premium Member
I didn't know the name.....that's probably it.
crumbletop
New member
Maybe about the same? I don't know. I minimized that in my setup by using 3/4 npt threaded to 1" barb. Then used 1" tubing to another 1" barb down to 3/4" npt. Basically upsized the tubing to allow the inner diameter to never get smaller than 3/4". So you may be able to do the same if you want to minimize head loss.
waynesworld
Premium Member
The thing about spa flex is you can use pvc fittings not barbs and it will work just as good if not better then hard pipe the problem is it is more expensive. I wouldn't use barbs or clamps with spa flex, barbs are used with black flex pipe and that is real hard to use but it is what is used to connect to water mains.
Fanof49ASU
Premium Member
OK, maybe you guys can help me with my tank.
This is what I'm wanting.
It'll be 36" long, 12"â€"15" wide and 8"â€"10" tall.
I'd like to have one return running all the time, to locline nozzles. I'd like to have a 2nd return active during the day pushing a hydor.
How big of a return would I need? Would 1" be too small?
Here's a quick sketch of what I'm thinking about.
This is what I'm wanting.
It'll be 36" long, 12"â€"15" wide and 8"â€"10" tall.
I'd like to have one return running all the time, to locline nozzles. I'd like to have a 2nd return active during the day pushing a hydor.
How big of a return would I need? Would 1" be too small?
Here's a quick sketch of what I'm thinking about.
Fanof49ASU
Premium Member
This should read.....
How big of a overflow would I need? Would 1" be too small?
How big of a overflow would I need? Would 1" be too small?
crumbletop
New member
How much flow do you get from your primary return pump (through the loclines)? How much flow do you plan to add through the hydor?
I'm not sure of the exact figures, but a 1" drain should accommodate in the neighborhood of 600 gph.
If you want to get a decent amount of flow in the tank without using powerheads, you'd be much better off going with a closed loop than trying to use the return pump.
I'm not sure of the exact figures, but a 1" drain should accommodate in the neighborhood of 600 gph.
If you want to get a decent amount of flow in the tank without using powerheads, you'd be much better off going with a closed loop than trying to use the return pump.
Fanof49ASU
Premium Member
I started to pm you and keep my ignorance between the two of us, but there might be another poor soul as lost as me out there....just maybe...
Let me see if I understand this correctly.
With the closed loop, I'd still be able to use a sump/fuge....right? I'd still have the overflow to the sump and back to the main tank. (I would have a pump for the return line here).
The closed loop would allow for more water movement, by drawing water from the main display to the pump and back to the main display, bypassing the fuge. (This would include a separate pump dedicated to this 'closed loop').....correct?
Let me see if I understand this correctly.
With the closed loop, I'd still be able to use a sump/fuge....right? I'd still have the overflow to the sump and back to the main tank. (I would have a pump for the return line here).
The closed loop would allow for more water movement, by drawing water from the main display to the pump and back to the main display, bypassing the fuge. (This would include a separate pump dedicated to this 'closed loop').....correct?
Fanof49ASU
Premium Member
I'm better at understanding with pictures.
Is this correct?
Is this correct?
crumbletop
New member
Yep, correct. The extra flow from the closed loop will not interfere with the drain from the tank back to the sump. For a real closed loop the pump is outside of the tank. What you have basically drawn in the pic is a standard sump setup with return + drain, and an extra power head in the tank for flow.
Fanof49ASU
Premium Member
Wouldn't the 'closed loop' pump work better inside the tank? Would their be any siphoning issues if it were out of the tank? (I realize it would be less heat if it were outside)
crumbletop
New member
There won't be a siphon in a closed loop. People often use a closed loop to drive penductors or multiple outlets and need something that is pressure rated to do that. I don't know if there are any pressure rated internal pumps at all. You mention the other issue which is heat delivered to the water. If you only want one thing hooked to a hydor then you are basically talking about a maxijet or similar, so you could keep the pump internal. That wouldn't be a closed loop, though -- it would essentially be a powerhead.
Fanof49ASU
Premium Member
Thanks Jack.
I think that I finally understand now.
I think that I finally understand now.
fallinapart
Premium Member
Glad you posted that question, Wayne (waynesworld) spent some time last night clearing that up for me. I kept wanting to mix the sump feed and closed loop as one system
Thanks to Wayne I also, understand now. The more I learn, the more I realize just how much I DON'T Know:eek1: Thanks to Wayne and all others who answer question over and over!
Norman
Fanof49ASU
Premium Member
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10653211#post10653211 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by fallinapart
Glad you posted that question, Wayne (waynesworld) spent some time last night clearing that up for me. I kept wanting to mix the sump feed and closed loop as one system
The more I learn, the more I realize just how much I DON'T Know:eek1: Thanks to Wayne and all others who answer question over and over!
Norman
My public humiliation was justified.
waynesworld
Premium Member
One thing I will put out to warn people with closed loop systems is if you do not have a drilled tank and try to pull water out of your tank it is asking for problems and can get cavitation and ruin a good pump. There may be some people on here that have done this and not had any problems but I know from experience the problems with it. Also I will warn people with a closed loop a pump seal faler could mean 1/2 a tank of water on the floor. So if you try it make sure you have more then one person look at it before you think it is good to go. Not to sound like a grim reaper on closed loops as I know a lot of people that have them with no problems but I also seen lots of $$$$$ on the carpets.
