Question about tank cycling

[SethSPST]

I started my 75 gallon about a month ago. I don't have live rock and I have cc 2-3" thick on the bottom. My filtation is a wet/dry system with bioballs. I put 2 green chromis and 2 sargent majors (about 1/2" each) in to cycle the tank. about 2 weeks later I added 15 hermits. In the past month my highest ammonia reading was .01. Now it's back to zero. I didn't test for nitrites until about a week ago. I got a zero on my test. I tested my water yesterday and got:
ammonia= 0
nitrite= 0
nitrate= 5

So does this mean my tank has cycled? I thought it would take more than a month. Thank for the help.
Seth

 

[John@JP]

Yeah it seems to have. You should still stock slowly for the next few months though.

 

[Avi]

I would agree with John. A couple of suggestions, though...I had a three-inch crushed coral substrate in my reef when I set it up, but I found that it was a trap for detritus and led to elevated nitrates in my tank. I ultimately changed over to a shallow sand bed which I like a lot better. Something to think about. Also, you don't mention how much live rock you have, but if it's a substantial amount, you needn't maintain the bio-balls in your system. Those are generally considered to lead to some elevation of nitrates, as well. I'm skeptical that either your substrate or the bio-balls could be elevating your nitrates this quickly....but something is. (That's not to say that 5ppm is dangerous.) Still, you should shoot for zero, so make sure that you aren't overfeeding, you start doing frequent water changes, and you should have a good quality protein skimmer on the reef. That, IMO, is essential.

 

[SethSPST]

I don't have live rock. I'm in the military and will transfer back to the mainland from hawaii in 3 years and it would all die, So I'm waiting to get some when I get back. I'm doing 20% water changes every 2 weeks and just hooked up my AquaC Urchin protien skimmer 3 days ago. I guess it still isn't broken in yet because it's not getting much skim. I had no choice with the crushed coral. My wife really likes the way it looks and as long as she's happy I can spend more money on the tank.

 

[SethSPST]

Thanks for the replies.

 

[CarmieJo]

If Momma's happy everybody is happy!!!

 

[aynoT79]

Just take your time, the biggest mistake in tank failure is moving too fast and worrying about things.. add one thing at a time and if something tests a lil high dont worry...


Tonya

 

[Bluemorningwind]

Most of the cycle is due to the die off on live rock. However, you still need a working population of bacteria. Your readings are fine and the fish are still alive, so I guess you have a working population of bacteria.


All the best with it.

 

[fishguy83]

Re: Question about tank cycling

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7244522#post7244522 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by SethSPST
I put 2 green chromis and 2 sargent majors (about 1/2" each) in to cycle the tank.

I wouldn't recommend cycling with live fish though - its pretty cruel. You can cycle the tank with patience, letting everything run with the LR - or speed it up with a little raw shrimp (although some people disagree with this).

also, if your spike wasn't too large - you might not have a large amount of bacteria, so I 2nd everyone's suggestion of adding slowly...

 

[Avi]

I would say that you shouldn't worry about the cycling with the fish...the ones you chose are almost always hardy enough for it and even though it might not be the best idea, you've done it already so...that's life. On the other hand, I don't know that you'd want to keep them in the tank once your convinced it's totally cycled. Damsels can very easily turn out to be nuisance in a fishtank and so you might want to opt for better community fish, though you may be all right with the Chromis.

If you don't have live rock, then I'd say you're doing all right with the bio-balls. Lots of people do it successfully that way. Something to supplement the protein skimmer, which you should have working effectively soon, is a good idea.

 

[fishguy83]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7245709#post7245709 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Avi
I would say that you shouldn't worry about the cycling with the fish...the ones you chose are almost always hardy enough for it and even though it might not be the best idea, you've done it already so...that's life.

I agree, its already done - but just spreading the word. Just because the fish survived the cycle, doesn't mean it was pleasant for them....

 

[Bluemorningwind]

Without the die off from live rock the ammonia and nitrite levels would have been quite low. Really only the levels created by the fish and food. I doubt the fish suffered at all.

You don't need to add fish if you are cycling with live rock, though.

 

[fishguy83]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7249674#post7249674 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Bluemorningwind
Without the die off from live rock the ammonia and nitrite levels would have been quite low. Really only the levels created by the fish and food. I doubt the fish suffered at all.

You don't need to add fish if you are cycling with live rock, though.

I'm not trying to sound like a pro - cuz i am a newbie, but have done plenty of reading/research...

so tell me if I'm wrong.. but

basically the scenario then is not a great cycle, low levels of bacteria to handle ammonia, any ammonia is toxic to fish - just because you don't see them stressed or dead, doesn't mean the low levels of ammonia doesn't affect them. then if you add fish, without having a decent spike in the beginning of the cycle, even slowly, each time you will have a decent spike, less if you actually cycle the tank ghost feeding or allowing some rot somewhere to establish the colony of bacteria

I'd be interested to know if SethSPST is keeping the chromis and others or are they only "disposable" fish used to cycle the tank?

 

[Kurt03]

is cylcling by dosing ammonia frowned upon with saltwater ? i just know alot of people use it with freshwater tank alot

 

[fishguy83]

I don't see why it would be frowned upon - except maybe you have to make sure you get pure ammonia, and that you don't overdose so it is hard to cycle- it will eventually go through the nitrogen cycle though -

The smell isn't too good either...

 

[Kurt03]

ive dosed some and after its in the tank or in your dripper i dont notice it. i might not have used very much though idk. but i agree going from the bottle to however your adding it isnt pleasent.

 

[Bluemorningwind]

An ammonia spike isn't needed to establish a viable population of bacteria. A soon as a spike subsides the bacteria begin to die and the population becomes balanced in terms of the bio-load.

In fact, a spike of any kind is undesirable. We want to establish an environment that is capable of supporting the fish and other creatures that we want to keep and that is all. A large spike will postpone these conditions and we gain nothing in return.

A spike is more of an issue when adding large amounts of LR that's been shipped and there's a lot of die-off as a result. Even still, you should manually remove as much die off as possible prior to adding it.

This system will gain nothing by creating an ammonia spike and doing so by adding raw ammonia or dead prawns is, in fact, harmful and unnecessary.

Just leave it alone and it will be fine. If you have to play with things, you could think about adding a fuge, auto top off or what ever, but please don't worry about the bacteria, that's all fine.

 

[fishguy83]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7257137#post7257137 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Bluemorningwind
An ammonia spike isn't needed to establish a viable population of bacteria. A soon as a spike subsides the bacteria begin to die and the population becomes balanced in terms of the bio-load.

In fact, a spike of any kind is undesirable. We want to establish an environment that is capable of supporting the fish and other creatures that we want to keep and that is all. A large spike will postpone these conditions and we gain nothing in return.

A spike is more of an issue when adding large amounts of LR that's been shipped and there's a lot of die-off as a result. Even still, you should manually remove as much die off as possible prior to adding it.

This system will gain nothing by creating an ammonia spike and doing so by adding raw ammonia or dead prawns is, in fact, harmful and unnecessary.

Just leave it alone and it will be fine. If you have to play with things, you could think about adding a fuge, auto top off or what ever, but please don't worry about the bacteria, that's all fine.

this contradicts a lot of what I have read - how do the bacteria that push the nitrogen cycle along grow? Do they not need a source like ammonia (which is essentially what all waste breaks down to)?

Just trying to learn...

If this is the case, why can't you just start a tank with any 'ole fish? Just start a tank and throw in a trigger?

 

[Kurt03]

I dont think he got the part that we were talking about setting up a new tank. Without live rock or anything.
" This system will gain nothing by creating an ammonia spike and doing so by adding raw ammonia or dead prawns is, in fact, harmful and unnecessary. "

I was talking about adding ammonia to a fresh tank to get the cycle going without live rock being added yet. Say if you were doing fish only and werent going to get any live rock you would need to get some bacteria going on your bio filter media before you get your fish.

 

[Bluemorningwind]

Oh...I get it alright.

If we ignore the original post (Seth has given up on this anyway)and imagine a situation where we have a bare glass box filled with fresh saltwater and the required equipment, then first you need to consider introducing the bacteria. Second, we need to consider surface area. Now, we need to consider bio-load.


Where will we get the bacteria from?

By adding some sand, decoration (live rock or not), filter media or whatever from an established tank we will provide the seed for our future population.


Where will they grow?

Any surface, including glass, plastic, rock, sand and whatever else is within the water column.


Where will we get a food source for our population?

From the livestock we intend to add, slowly.


A very simple plan that will provide very good and consistent results. This can not be improved by adding raw ammonia or dead things. It also assumes that you stock slowly, as you should in any case, and that the system is satisfactory.


All the best with it.