Questions About Algae

[montein]

I have a 180 gallon tank that has been set up for about two years. I have always battled hair algae in this thing. Most of the time it is not a serious problem, just annoying.

I have tested my freshly mixed salt water (I am currently using Red Sea), and show 0 phosphates and 0 nitrates. My tank also tests 0 for these two things, but I assume if the phosphates are there they are being sucked up by the algae and would test 0 anyway.

I have read some strange things about dosing vodka or sugar- has anyone tried this? Is is safe? Effective? Dosing instructions?

I have also recently identified a new algae in my tank and I am not happy about it. Reefcleaners.org says it it Bryopsis and that it is nasty nasty stuff. There is an article there about upping magnesium levels well beyond the normal range to kill this algae. Any thoughts on this? What would be the best level to try?

I have decided to switch to SeaChem Reefsalt as soon as I need a new bucket. It has higher magnesium levels, as well as more KH, which is something I am constantly buffering right now.

I guess I should mention that in this 180 I only have 2 perculas, 1 scooter blenny and 1 cleaner wrasse, as well as a few mixed corals from SPS to zoas. I have cut the amount of light back by an extreme amount. I was running 3 250 watt 10K mh and 4 32" super actinic T5s. Now I have turned the T5s off, went to 1 175 watt 14K mh and 2 250 watt 14K mh, and cut my photoperiod to 6 hours a day. I also use 75 mg of phosban in a home built flow through canister and change it out once a week when I do my water change.

I have been running like this for just over two weeks, and it seems to be doing some good on algae and as of yet no harm to corals- but thoughts and suggestions are badly wanted...............

 

[HighlandReefer]

Regarding the Bryopsis, many hobbyists have achieved control by elevating their magnesium level using Tech M by 300-400 ppm. My thoughts are that the amount of heavy metals in Tech M (especially copper or combinations) may be the likely reason. Increasing your mag level by more than 100 ppm per day is not usually recommend, although in this situation the best way to achieve control of Bryopsis may be with dosing higher than the 100 ppm per day of the Tech M. IMHO, we need to refine the dosing recommendations for using Tech M to control Bryopsis.

Regarding your ongoing algae problem, I am in the same situation as you.

I have implemented the standard procedures for controlling algae and have not been able to get rid of mine. IMHO, the specie of pest algae may have a lot to do with this. In my situation, I am dealing with a specie of Derbesia (I believe).

I have a current thread going discussing some options you may want to try:

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1781320&page=2

 

[HighlandReefer]

A common problem is being able to identify your pest to a catagory correctly: true algae, cyano, dino, bacteria & other assorted pests that look similar. In many cases a micro look at your pest is best to properly ID it to one of these catagories.

IMHO, if you are faced with an algal type pest problem, it is best to implement an algae pest control program strategy:


1) Wet skimming with a good quality skimmer. Clean your skimmer cup at least once per week.

2) Reduce your nitrates and phosphates to a zero reading using the hobby grade test kits. See Randy's articles regarding this:

Phosphate and the Reef Aquarium
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-09/rhf/index.php

Nitrate in the Reef Aquarium
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/august2003/chem.htm

3) Proper lighting. I find that the higher wavelength bulbs are less conducive to algae growth. I now run 20,000 K bulbs from using 10,000 K bulbs.

4) Proper day length is a good thing also. I would not run your lights for more than 12 hrs total. Keep in mind that light entering from a window nearby is added to this figure.

5) Running GAC is a good practice in my book. It will help reduce the total dissolved organic carbons in your tank water and this is a food source.

6) Proper 30% per month total water changes will help export the DOC as well as some of the pests in the water column. It will help maintain the micro-nutrients as well.

7) Physical removal of the pest by hand, scrubbing and siphoning is important as well. If the amount of pest in your aquarium is overwhelming, perhaps dealing with one section at a time is a better idea.

8) Proper water circulation in your tank to prevent dead zones. When dealing with cyanobacteria pests increasing the flow where it grows seems to help.

9) Use RODI water for all top-off, salt mixing, additive mixes... etc.

10) Dosing iron may have benefits for macro-algae, but if you are experiencing algae pest problems than I would stop dosing it as it can add to the problem in many cases.

11) If you are dosing other supplements such as vitamins, amino acids, or others that contain a mix of supplements other than the basic alk., calcium and magnesium, I would stop these until you gain control of your pest. This includes many of the store bought products with unknown ingredients. Dosing Vodka or sugar to reduce your nitrates and phosphates would be an exception in my opinion.

12) Proper feeding habits. This can be the number one problem when trying to reduce your nitrate and phosphate levels. Use low phosphate fish foods.

13) IMHO, lighted refugiums may be a problem when trying to deal with an algae type pest problem. They are wonderful when it comes to reducing nitrates and phosphates. However, the light over most refugiums is conducive to the microalgae type pests. If the refugium becomes infested with a microalgae pest, I would clean it throughly of all pests as best as possible, remove the macro and turn off the lights until you gain control of your pest. Re-using the same macroalgae later may serve as a source for re-infestation of your pest.

14) Adding fish and other creatures that will eat your algae pest will help.

15) There are other items that can be added to this list if others care too share and some of the items listed may be disputed.

____________________________________________________________________________________________________ _______


If after you have tried all these procedures and you are still loosing the battle, I would recommend that you initiate the use of AlgaeFix Marine based on the reports I have seen in this thread:

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?p=16056708#post16056708

I hate to see anyone give up on this hobby due to algae type pest problems.

 

[montein]

Regarding the Bryopsis, many hobbyists have achieved control by elevating their magnesium level using Tech M by 300-400 ppm. My thoughts are that the amount of heavy metals in Tech M (especially copper or combinations) may be the likely reason.

WAIT. I had no idea there was copper in magnesium. How is it that that is at all safe in a mixed reef?

 

[HighlandReefer]

Many of the items you add to your tank have copper & other heavy metals. Salt mixes are very high in hevy metals. All your calcium chloride and magnesium supplements have these contaminates in them. There have not been a lot of studies regarding the levels of heavy metals in reef aquariums, but of the results I have seen the levels in our tanks are close to the range where invertebrates are harmed, certainly approaching the range where many species of algae have been found to be affected by them.

 

[chuckreef]

I have a 180 gallon tank that has been set up for about two years. I have always battled hair algae in this thing.

I also use 75 mg of phosban in a home built flow through canister and change it out once a week when I do my water change.

- but thoughts and suggestions are badly wanted...............

This does not sound like enough phosban for the tank size/problem.
Can you explain your use of phosban better?

 

[montein]

LOL. It is actually 75 grams. I built a flow through canister that my return pump draws through, and I put the phosban in a sediment bag inside the canister.

 

[chuckreef]

I don't think that is enough. I've found two to three cups per 150 gal. is about right (that is probably 150 to 200 grams). You are using a lot less.

When I have had a little algae pop up, I've had good luck with the following routine:

1) phosban three cups/ carbon one cup for 3 days
2) phosban three cups/ carbon one cup for 3 days
3) rowaphos three cups carbon one cup for five to ten days.

Repeat step three several times.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Why switch brands in that routine?

 

[montein]

I have heard that cheap activated carbon can add phosphates to your water. What is the best carbon you can buy?

 

[chuckreef]

Randy,

I don't know and I really can't offer a reason why - other than it has worked for me on several occasions. And, I should add, I don't think its brand specific. I could should have written GFO instad of Rowa phos. But I do notice a change when I run the Phosban for a few days and then switch to the GFO - which requires me thottling back on the flow in the Rx. Perhpas the two absorb slightly different weekly bound forms of the anion or perhaps at the different flow rates there is some slight absorption difference, - I can't say why (or how) it works. I can state my observations and what has worked for me.

The other point in my e-mail is I believe not leaving it running in the system for long is key. Perhpas as I keep swapping it out for fresh stuff its possible that its just around the time of the third or fourth fresh media re-charge that the levels really drop low and its only in my head (I.e., perhaps I attribute) the benefit to the switch in media, when just batches of either media would work. But, I tend to stick with what worked for me in the past.

Chuck

 

[mouscacha]

Why not get a yellow or convict tang? They're constantly picking at my rockwork, and any hair algae that showed up was gone within a few hours.

If you want to add the correct amount of GFO, use the BRS website. It's always helped me with dosing and such:
http://www.bulkreefsupply.com/store/reef-calculator

 

[montein]

Oh I am definately buying a tang. More than likely a powder brown. And about 100 nassarius vibex and 100 mini ceriths. And 25 more nerites and 25 spiney star astreas............ I do already have a very diverse clean up crew, but I am thinking it is time to triple the amount of detrus eaters just because I have not tried that tactic as of yet.

 

[ECU stew]

nassarius are primarily meat eaters, while they would benifit the system by cleaning up leftover meaty items from feeding and dead oragnisms (such as other snails) they wouldn't combat the hair algae as efficiently as astreas,trocus or margarita turbo's. So you may want to deduct a few of them and add more of the other. I witnessed one of mine pull a dying astrea from its shell the other day then return to the sand.

 

[montein]

The idea behind extra nassarius and ceriths was to keep the substrate clean and therefore help keep phosphates and nitrates down- which in turn keeps the algea down. I have thrown a ton of money into hermit crabs, margarita snails, trochus snails, astreas, turbos, nerites and so on, and that has not done the job completely. Like I said, I plan to try this because it is one tactic I HAVE NOT tried yet.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I have heard that cheap activated carbon can add phosphates to your water. What is the best carbon you can buy?

That is not really an issue. Folks get totally mislead by a test where some GAC is put into some DI water and they look for phosphate. WOW, way off scale phosphate. NOT

The thing is that if the phosphate from 1 teaspoon GAC in a cup of water is scaled up to a cup of GAC in 100 gallons of tank water, that way off scale phosphate becomes way off scale low, and is insignificant.

So one should pick aquarium GAC based on its effectiveness, not a test claiming phosphate is a problem.

Marineland Black Diamond, ROX and Seachem carbon are all fine products.
.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

The other point in my e-mail is I believe not leaving it running in the system for long is key.

I agree. Except is a system that seems perfect, the claims for how long GFO lasts can be ridiculous. I’ve seen folks claim 4 months. I don’t believe that for a second. It can be depleted in less than a day if phosphate is substantial, or if there is a big algae problem. Without any phosphate in the water at all it likely becomes useless in a month or less as it is coated with organics and bacteria.

 

[montein]

Today I purchased:

1 Gallon Kent Phosphate Sponge
1 Gallon Kent Nitrate Sponge
1 Gallon Kent Reef Carbon
2L Magnesion (Magnesium sulfate and Magnesium chloride)
Red Sea Magnesium Test

When the order arrives I will start upping my Magnesium levels to deal with the Bryopsis, and get on a more aggressive regimen with the phosphate removal media. I really like my Phosban better, but I got Kent Phosphate Sponge to mix in with it half and half because right now my set up becomes very compacted. I know mixing in the Nitrate Sponge and Reef Carbon will loosen it up too, but what is done is done

Next week hopefully the snails. In a month or so hopefully I will be looking a lot better. Then I won't feel so bad about buying some new fish. I have been lusting over a few fish and corals, but I just couldn't see that it made sense to add livestock when my tank looked so crappy.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Well, the Brightwell material may or may not work for Bryopsis. It is not apparently a magnesium issue as much as a likely impurity in some specific brands, notably Kent.

I would not count on the Kent nitrate sponge to do much, and while the Kent phosphate sponge (aluminum oxide) will work, I prefer iron based materials (GFO) to avoid aluminum release which bothers some corals.

 

[montein]

Oh go figure. All the Kent stuff that I did buy sucks and the Magnesium that I got should have been Kent. I am really good at this, eh?

Give me an example of an iron based phoshpate remover......my phosban is ferric oxide hydroxide.