Questions about Metal Halide / Florescents

[Ted_C]

Hi All.

Does anyone have any good sources of information on the basic begginner questions on Metal halides / Florescents? I'm a complete newb when it comes to this lighting choice and requirements and such and could really use a hand.

I'm planning on a 72" geisemann spectra fixture (with no lamps or ballasts included).

I'm planning on a 72" long x 36" wide x 30" deep tank - maybe up to 84" long.

I'll then add 3x 400W Radium B bulbs
and 4 Florescent bulbs (60" 80W 2x Blue+, KZ Fuji, ATI True Actinic)

My inital questions are:
How many ballasts for the radiums are required (do I need one for each Radium)?
How many ballasts for the T5's? I think the answer is two and I can run them in pairs.
Should I maybe just ask an LFS which deals with Coralvue to set me up with the best and not worry about the details?
Any reccomendations on the best ballast to be running with the 3x Radiums? There's a thread in the preimum aquatics section I've been asking questions too about this question: http://reefcentral.com/forums//showthread.php?t=2405972
I read some power requirements and think I would need two dedicated 30 Amp circuits just for the lights. Whew. Does that sound right?
Can you use the neptune EB4's (dedicated) for the lights?

Yes - the listed wattage of all the bulbs would be ~ 1520 Watts - but according to some other literature I found on another site - these were reccomended by Giesemann directly - there are "extra" calculations to the wattage to account for start-up of metal halides and the wattage consumed by the ballasts

Quote:
2) the consumption can be calculated as follwed
T-5 wattage + 2 % = total power consumption (2 x 54 Watt = 108 Watt + 2 Watt = 110 Watt)
MH wattage + 7 % = total power consumption (250 Watt = 250 Watt + 18 Watt = 268 Watt)

3) to calculate the breaker (fuse) you need to double this amount. For example : 3 x 400 Watt + 4 x 80 Watt
= 1610 Watt. The breaker needs to have at least 3200 Watt (currency (Ampere) can be calculated with the power factor of 0,45)

3200 watts equals around 30 amps on a 120V circuit.

Maybe at the time this was quoted - they were still using magnetic ballasts compared to electronic ballasts.

Maybe the start-up "peak" is so quick that it won't trip the EB4, EB8 and the dedicated 20 amp circuit. Tough to say unless someone has some real world experience with these.

If you want to answer those questions here - that's fine - but I'd really like to find a good source of information - so if you have links on how you learned - please share them.

 

[robthorn]

Emmett runs this same set up or very close. Different ballasts will have a different amount of power consumption. Different bulbs do as well. At least from my experience. There was a guy JB NY that did a bunch of tests here maybe 10 years or so ago.
I would think 1 20 amp circuit would be good but I haven't actually calculated it. Not sure why you would need double the power available. I will try to remember to ask our electrician tomorrow. 3 Radiums should be less than 12 amps at 120 volts. If you run a dedicated circuit I would suggest getting 220v ballasts. Just my opinion.


Also look up Sanjay Joshi if you haven't already. Advance aquarist has some of his tests.

 

[robthorn]

As far as I know you can run these on an EB8 or whatever the standard neptune power strip is. Check the outlets and use the right ones since they are different power ratings but I want to say all the outlets would do this.

 

[Ted_C]

Yes - your right - Thanks Rob. only one 20 amp dedicated circuit (I was exagerating (sp)) and forget my previous post. Once I re-read it - I remembered. Good idea on the 220 V. (220, 221... whatever it takes, right? Haha).

See - that brings up all kinds of other questions though - how exactly do you control the lights with a neptune and a 220v outlet? Everything on there would need to be 220V - from the ballasts to the energy bars and the energy bar outlets. Where can you get 220V ballasts? Do you need a transformer to bring the 220V down to 120V and then just use 120V down-stream?

That's why I think I need to see some informative literature or something or talk to an LFS that knows all of this already.

Edit: Oh yea - also - its looking like I'd need two dedicated 220V circuits - One for the lights and one for the chiller. and a dedicated 20 amp for everything else. Eh Gads. I think I need my own house before I can get my dream aquarium - haha.

 

[robthorn]

Just talked to our electrician. For the lighting only at 115v you would have plenty of power with one 20 amp circuit. Another 15-20 amp circuit should run everything else. Of course it depends on what you run but just rough estimating in my head that would include a 1/2 ton chiller large pumps and wave maker pumps and skimmer. Lucky for us most things are getting more efficient.

220v ballasts used to be available from ice cap and galaxy. I assume they are still available.

I have to check neptune real fast but if they don't have a 220v energy bar I can make it happen with a relay per ballast for you. Have to pay you back for the cans anyway.

 

[robthorn]

They do have an energy bar 6-240v It says European style so I would just call and see if it is their style plug that can be converted to a USA style plug or something. The whole bar is 10a so at 220v you would be safe.

 

[janes_mw]

On my tank in 2010, I ran three 400W DE and two 6' VHO tubes. I used two energy bars. Each Energy bar has 2 relay switched receptacles for High load devices or high load switching devices. On the first EB, I had two Hamilton Magnetic ballast's. As well, I put other low current devices on that bar since I had two high current devices with the lights. The other had VHO ballast (icecap 660) and the third Hamilton ballast in the two relay switched receptacles and other lower current devices as well.
For the tank, I ran two dedicated 20a 120V circuits to the tank area (I lived in Michigan, so easy to run in the basement and push up to the tank area).

I never had any power issues or even close to it with this config (180g 6x2x2 tank). I didn't run a chiller, so that would need consideration based on size and current draw, but I wouldn't hook this into the Apex anyway.

I brought the lights on staggered slightly to reduce start-up draw (VHOs first, Outer MH, inner MH).

Anyway, seemed to work fine .

 

[Ted_C]

Thanks for the awesome advice. After speaking with John too - he mentioned the 220V is more efficient when it comes to heat waste out of the ballast and more stable with voltage flucuations.

So the plan is:
220V Circuit
3x 220 V 400W Ballasts for the Metal Halides
Some sort of relay / solenoid to EB8 receptacles (running on 120V) Like Rob mentioned.

120V 20 Amp Circuit
2x 120V ballasts for the 4 T5's
Chiller

another 120V 20 Amp circuit for everything else

So now the questions fall to best performers in 240V 400W ballasts and to the T5's. I'll take a look at JB NY posts, but if it's more than a year or two old - it may be out of date. Web searches look like my only two choices are Lumatek or Luxcore.

 

[robthorn]

Sunlight Supply has a part number listed in the galaxy description for a 240v cord.

 

[robthorn]

A quick search shows a 1/3 horse chiller under 8A. That should be under 1000 watts. A 20 amp circuit is good for 2400 watts. Your better off not maxing that circuit out but 75-80% capacity is pretty standard. If you are running the circuits extra anyway it never hurts to have extra power available.

 

[janes_mw]

not sure I agree with going the added trouble and expense of 240 v ballast if you want to interface with an Apex. 120v Magnetic get the job done and overall, P=VI (excluding power factor correction) and true, your current draw will be less, but not a whole lot more efficient in the overall power consumption. But, you will get many others that disagree with me, but overall I think your making it too complicated for the minor benefit. Especially when you add in getting switching network to switch from Energy Bars to blah. Your major heat source to the tank is the bulbs, 400 watts each to the local tank atmosphere, no matter what voltage your running them at. The ballast are remote and you can definitely make sure the heat off them don't enter the tank environment.

If you want expert advise on magnetic vs electronic ballast, Sanjay is the guy if you ask me.

my two cents
mike

 

[robthorn]

Yeah suggestion is probably a stronger word than I should have used. An option is 220v.