questions about tank

kcfehring

New member
I just bought an established tank from a neighbor that was moving. He has had the tank for several years, but he had been letting it go and so there were not many items left in it. The tank is a 44 gallon corner tank. It has a heater, bio wheel filter, one powerhead, a testing kit, and a high precision hydrometer that also shows the water temp. The tank has 40 lbs of live rock and a crushed shell/course sand bed. When we bought the tank it came with all of this and two ocellaris clownfish, one fridmani pseudochromis, two pencil urchins, a bubble coral and some red type of mushrooms.
Since purchasing it we have added six turbo snails, two emeral crabs, 4 small hermit crabs, one peppermint shrimp, a plate coral a flower leather coral, a hawiian feather duster and some type of polyp coral. All are doing fine except for some furry red algae that has been creeping up lately. We do a partial (10%) water change every two weeks, and check the water weekly. We feed the tank frozen and flake food, alternating daily, and phytoplankton once a week. We also add, once a week, reef plus and reef complete. Our lighting consists of a Corallife trichromatic (15 watt) full spectrum lamp and a actinic (15 watt) 03 blue.

I would like to know if you think that we are doing everything okay for what we have now or if there is something that we should change. We are wanting to get a yellow tang, green clown goby, a pajama cardinal, a cleaner shrimp, and maybe some blue chromis. I'm not sure how many fish this tank should house. We will also be putting in more coral as we continue to learn about the different kinds and what they need. Any advice would be appreciated. Thanks
 
if your getting cyano ( red slime ) i would boost your flow in your tank, for corals you probally should upgrade lighting . you may want to do something with that sand bed eventually, if its like you say it will be a nitrate trap . just my 2 cents.
 
Kc,

OK.... a lot of questions so where to start.

First off the red furry stuff is due to a nutrient excess in the tank, probably from stuff that was stirred around when you purchased the tank and moved it.

You havent mentioned in your list a protein skimmer. This is almost an essential with the kind of system you have, it removes slime and stuff secreted by the corals.

----to start alleviating problems, increase water change size to 20%. This will help a great deal, but make sure the water is exactly the same as the tank water, which ideally should be 1.023-1.025.

Secondly, remove the biowheel from the filter and drop the wheel into the tank and leave it there for a few weeks. This is causing bacteria to build up on the filter, rather than on the rock of the tank. Dropping it in the water will make the bacteria essentially spread out. You can still run the filter without the wheel.

next, the lighting you have is very low for that size tank. Ideally you need something brighter, such as 100W of t5, 200w of PC, 200W of VHO or 250W of metal halide. This will help your corals thrive and grow.

AS for the yellow tang, a 44g is on the small side. It can be done, but purchase the smalles tang you can find.

In that tank, with 40lb rock you are limited to a few fish. Add more rock, you can have 5-8 or so smaller fish.

There are improvements you can do, however they all carry a cost. The lights are the most important feature, next would be a skimmer.

AS for the redstuff, keep doing water changes and suck it up when it gets near a coral. I wouldnt recommend trying to remove it all since it is part of the natural progression of a new tank.

BTW.....if you can make it to OKC this saturday, we have a big meeting and lots of people will be able to talk to you about your tank.

feel free to ask more questions,

Paul.
 
What should I do about the sand bed? As far as water movement do I add another powerhead or get a stronger one? And I can't find any T5 or Halide that will fit my tank. My bulbs are 18", so I am not sure how to upgrade them.
 
you can get a halide to fit easy! i would put another powerhead in myself and like paul said increase your water changes. i've seen people with a bio wheel but dont know the sucess so i didnt say anything about that but paul w summed it good.
 
ohh and the sand bed is a big debate, i wouldnt use anything that coarse, if you can replace it with a finer sand that would be great. theres alot of knowledge in oklahoma so feel free to ask any questions, especially paul w!! he has helped me out tremendously!!
 
Kc,

post some pics and i will offer some better suggestions.

One thing you can do is to not have a hood and use a hang over the tank pendant style light, maybe a 250W pendant. They are not the cheapest, but may be ideal for your requirements.

Anyways, post dimensions and pictures if you can and lets work from there.

As far as sand goes, I would consider adding some aragonite sand, fine to the crushed coral, or pull the CC. Now.....having said that, you may want to consider adding a sump, which is another smaller tank under the main one inside the cabinet. The water flows from the top to the sump through and overflow (these can be had quite cheap second hand) and then is returned to the main tank. You add a good sand bed to the sump to act as a filter.

----there more to it than that, biut again its a thought.

Paul.
 
One other thing i would mention, there are many ways of doing something, not all of them are compatible with each other so find someone whos ideas you like, discuss it and then mmake a plan and go with it.

Paul.
 
If he has the tank i am thinking of, I have the same one... 44 gal pent???? You cant put a sump under the stand unless its a custom stand... well, I guess you could, but alot of mods... KC, Is your 44 gal a pentagon? If so I can show you what I have done, and send you some pics of my tank to show you how it has prospered!
As for the fish, I have 2 clowns, a blenny and a Goby, I know I could add one more with no problems, but I am not wanting to as I am upgrading tanks at the time..So like paul said, depending on size, about 5 fish!....
Take my info with a grain of salt though, I am pretty new to this as well, and I will probably catch some "Disagrees" from this post, but this is what I have learned thus far.

-Dustin
 
Oh, By the way, Paul W. does have alot of knowledge in SW aquariums, he is the one to go to.. another person I go to when I have tech questions is TravisLStevens.

-Dustin
 
<img src="/images/welcome.gif" width="500" height="62"><br><b><i><big><big>To Reef Central and COMAS</b></i></big></big>

Really, you aren't too bad off. I know others that are worse, and others still that are better. But, you're just diving in, and I think you have a decent start. Okay, now down to my nitty gritty. Consider it as an addendum to pwhitby's posts. I agree with him, but I could use a little more information.

---What type of heater is it, and what size? You don't want anything under powered or you'll have constant temperature swings between day and night. But, if it is over powered, you can easily overheat your tank.
---You might want to look at getting a little more porous rock. I'm not sure how good the rock is in your current setup, but rock is the primary biological filtration in nearly all marine aquariums. The more porous the rock is and the more you have means the more biological filtration you can have. This is very helpful when keeping a larger number of fish, or help keep accidents such as overfeeding from being a giant problem in a short amount of time. In adequate biofiltration can cause an excess in nutrients, thus sprining up things like nuisance algaes and cyanobacteria, one of which just might be what you are having trouble with in your tank.
---What powerhead do you have, and how much flow does it give off? For the most part depending on what you have in your tank, a fair amount of flow is needed to keep corals clean of debris, increase gas exchange from the water, keep any protein film aggitated at the surface of the water, keep debris suspended longer, etc. Most likely you will need some more flow for that size tank. But, there are a lot of different things you can put in there, so a little more information is needed first.
---What test kits do you have? There are a lot of water parameters that you should keep a check on. Some are more necessary than others and may need to be tested more often. Some test kits that are almost indisposable are Ammonia, Nitrite, Nitrate, pH, Calcium, and Alkalinity. Another two tests that should be performed if you want to keep on top of water chemistry are Magnesium and Phosphates. Lastly, you'll need a test kit for anything else that you dose. For example, if you are dosing Iodine, you will need an Iodine test kit.
---I assume that the hydrometer you have is a floating hydrometer? I recommend that you read up on the proper use, calibration, and care of hydrometers. They are a very sensitive instrument that even the smallest thing can cause inaccurate readings.
---You crushed coral substrate is something that is often avoided. Crushed coral provides ample room for water and oxygen to flow in as well as letting debris to settle down and rot. Because of the high oxygen content and the extra debris, the debris will break down through the Nitrogen Cycle, but will only make it to the Nitrate stage. This causes an increase in Nitrates. Nitrates are broken down by bacteria that grow where oxygen isn't present. This is usually found deep inside live rock, and deep in a fine sandbed. So, you might want to look at modifying your substrate to get the best filtration that you can out of it.
---Just a word of warning. Pseudochromis can be very territorial, and urchins are notorious for knocking things down. Also, like most urchins, a good calcium based diet is optimal for their health and growth. Since urchins are normally algaevores, their optimal food choice is the often highly desired Coralline Algae. They will also eat other algae, too, and go through other calcium based algaes like Halimeda or Neomeris like candy.
---What do you plan on your cleanup crew being? You might want to look into a variety of critters to help keep your tank clean. Turbos are alright, but they are utter bulldozers that eat a ton. This is great news for aquarists, but a tank over stocked with Turbos will only lead to them starving to death as they out compete each other and other animals for food.
---How much are you feeding per day? How much of it is eaten and how much floats away?
---What are your current water parameters? Temperature, Specific Gravity or Salinity, pH, Calcium, Alkalinity, Ammonia, Nitrite, and Nitrates
---Lighting is VERY difficult on a 44g Corner Pentagon. There are a lot of lighting options available, but very few are easily put on a tank. The problem with lighting a 44g Pentagon is the shape. You can only fit smaller bulbs, which usually limits how bright you can have it as well as the surface area that the bulb can light up. Unfortunately, Metal Halides are one of the best options for a tank of this odd shape. A Metal Halide covers a broad area very brightly. Generally, a 24" x 24" surface are is brightly lit enough with direct light that there is very little that you could not keep under it. Of course, depending on your plans for corals and inverts might make choosing the correct wattage a little difficult. The simple clip on the back 70w MH is a great starter moderate light loving corals. But, if you would really like to pack on the light, a 150w or 175w would be ideal. If you want to aim for an SPS dominate tank such as Reef Central's tank of the month, then you might look at a 250w MH. Now, as you see, you have a lot of options open, but there is a huge problem with MH and heat. So, the more powerful the bulb, the more heat you have. The more heat you have, the more fans you will need. If configured correctly, you won't need a chiller. But there is a small chance that you might with a MH.
---The fish that you propose are very pretty, but I would really look into their requirements more. Using nature as a guide will really help you determine their needs. For example, a Yellow Tang gets about 7" long and is a constant, water column swimmer. So, with that being said, you can see that a 44g Pentagon is really just too small. I would take a look at a fish's requirements, and your current tank before choosing a single fish. Wanting groups of fish such as Chromis or Anthias is often an enduring task for large aquariums.
---As Paul Whitby said, a skimmer is almost essential. You really don't have to have one. But, they are so drastically helpful that it is almost foolish not to have one. For what it's worth, I don't run a skimmer, and I do just fine. With all things considered about your current tank setup, I would recommend one. There are a lot of complex proteins that aren't being filtered that a skimmer can easily take out for you.
---Dtking is right. A sump is very difficult to put under a prebuilt 44g Pentagon stand unless it is custom built. If you would like to have a sump or refugium, and you need a new stand, I still have the frame of mine. If you are good with woodworking, a little plywood to skin the frame, and you are good to go. If you are interested in it, then shoot me a Private Message

One other thing i would mention, there are many ways of doing something, not all of them are compatible with each other so find someone whos ideas you like, discuss it and then mmake a plan and go with it.

Above all else, this is one of the most important pieces of advice. There is more than one way of doing things, and it's up to you to decide how you want to do it. Technically, what you have is fine, but it might present a long and arduous journey for a healthy tank. All the advice given above by everyone will help you tremendously in the long run.
 
Well, since they seem to be summing this up nicely for ya, I'll just welcome you. :D Glad you found the forum okay. Hope to see you at the meeting.
 
Lets try a new approach.....

What would you like to keep in your tank ? with that in mind we can propose the best way to get there.

---I didnt realize it was a hex tank. That does make lighting difficult.

P.
 
Just so people have a visual picture of what the tank looks like, here is my empty 44g Pentagon

44Corner.jpg
 
actually, having the same tank, the lighting wasnt to difficult. At first I had my VHO's mounted to the very top of my canopy, then I bought a MH, so of course I had to make changes... I have pictures that I will post later, I am on lunch right now, so I dont have time to get the pictures up... but anyway, I made brackets that I cut out and mounted on top of the canopy rails and mounted the vhos on that, and then the MH went on top of the canopy...

I will post pictures later..

-Dustin
 
That tank is a tough tank to add lighting to. you can only fit 2 24 watt T5HO lights and they are angled so they don't light the tank well. This is a perfect tank to use a 250 watt MH system. There are ways to do it fairly reasonably with a pendant lamp.

The reason for the sand change is because finer sand filters better. You can even add the finer sand over the coarse sand. It will settle in well. But that is not the thing you need to do first. Increasing flow is. There are a number of powerheads that can be hung in the tank to increase water movement. The newer ones with propellers would be great because they give a broad flow of water rather than a straight line flow. There are a number of them for under $50.

You are getting a lot of help here. :) Don't listen to us all, just soak in the info for your education but grab one of us and ask them to be a mentor as such. There are a lot of good ways to go but you can't mix everyones info together.

Since Paul W jumped in, I would ask him to work with you. He will get you going on the right track and in the right order of need and he may even be able to help you do it in an affordable way.

You really need to try to get to the meeting on Saturday. It is going to be huge and if you join the group for a measly $25 you will be able to get some great door prizes. This is the biggest annual kickoff the group has ever had. Thanks to Paul.
 
okay here we go with the pics...
This is how I had the lights mounted before the "operation"
000_0068.jpg

Canopy Rails
Picture118.jpg

Cutting the "Brackets"
Picture117.jpg

Mounting the Brackets
Picture121.jpg

Mounting the End Caps (right side)
Picture123.jpg

End caps mounted
Picture122.jpg

Mounting MH
Picture125.jpg

MH Installed (bigger view)
Picture126.jpg

End of Operation with moonlights on
Picture136.jpg


If you have any questions, just post or PM me.

-Dustin
 
oh, I forgot to show you what the tank looked like with all the lights on...

here is a pic with the canopy closed and all lights on (ext. view)
Picture181.jpg

and here is a pic showing you the inside of the tank with all lights on...
Picture182.jpg


-Dustin
 
Dont be overwhelmed with all the info, if you have questions just Private Message someone and we will be glad to help!!! Thats what we are here for, for help and knowledge!....

-Dustin
 
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