Questions on Prime in QT tank...

[neiltus]

It is my understanding that Prime does not remove ammonia, just binds to it and keeps it from being toxic to livestock.

During QT, I would like to do water changes weekly barring the need for more often. I plan on QT'ing no more than two small fishes (think clowns 1.5") at a time using a 10gallon tank and mixed water that I use with my DT.

How often do I need to add prime, is this a once every water change, or do I need to 'refresh' it? Can it be overdosed? (not talking about a whole bottle, just a ml or two over)?

I would assume ammonia would still show up on a salifert ammonia test?

Do I need to plan for maybe a change 2x a week?

 

[Breakthecycle2]

If you are wanting to cycle the tank quickly, you can use Brightwell's MB7. I just cycled a 15 gallon in less then a week. Also, you cannot use Prime with copper, if that is the med you are going to use.

 

[neiltus]

I was not planning on cycling the tank, just to QT for 6 weeks following a TTM/prazi and formalin dip.

Tank is a bare 10g with an air stone, head and PVC. Don't plan on using copper unless I encounter the need for it.

So, other than a swag, what is the protocol for prime application, how long does it last, does it loose it's effects with time, etc. Barring a 100% water change, how often does one re-apply prime?

 

[Breakthecycle2]

I was not planning on cycling the tank, just to QT for 6 weeks following a TTM/prazi and formalin dip.

Tank is a bare 10g with an air stone, head and PVC. Don't plan on using copper unless I encounter the need for it.

So, other than a swag, what is the protocol for prime application, how long does it last, does it loose it's effects with time, etc. Barring a 100% water change, how often does one re-apply prime?

You need to cycle the tank, the same as a display tank.

 

[neiltus]

if QT tank is cycled, what is the point of the prime?

 

[Mishri]

seachem makes a multi-test kit that can distinguish between the ammonia (Free ammonia and total ammonia).. according to them if you use theirs with prime you'll know for sure what you are testing..

I don't know about the API one. it seems like I remember doing before/after tests and it showed reduced ammonia after dosing... but maybe after a little while it would show up even though it's non-toxic.. so.. I'm not sure.

I view prime as an emergency use or while medicating use (other than copper or any other that wont work).. otherwise water changes should be enough. You can do water changes while medicating, I just don't like to dose the new water.

 

[Breakthecycle2]

if QT tank is cycled, what is the point of the prime?

Its for quick fixes in emergency's, not to "not" cycle a tank.

 

[jmm]

If you can find room for a second 10 gallon tank, buy one. Maybe you already have one for the TTM you went through. Get an ammonia alert badge or two. Have the transfer tank ready for when you need it.

I use fresh salt water instead of water from display and have never had any problems with it. Two small fish won't foul the water very quickly but the ammonia alert badges will tell you when to move them.

 

[ladyshark]

Guess I am a little confused. My reading of TTM threads indicate Prime is used on Day 2 of each portion of the TTM to avoid ammonia spikes. Cycling is not necessary during TTM, nor are bio filters, since you have brand new (no ammonia) water every three days. In observation after TTM bio filter comes into play

Given this, OPs questions are relevant, and I have the same question, actually--is it possible to overdose on Prime

 

[ladyshark]

sorry, dup post

 

[neiltus]

Here is the approach I am taking re prime and QT.

TTM, going for 14 days based on my schedule, it works out to 6 changes. I started with a Formalin dip, measured with a syringe and aerated for a little over an hour before putting fish in dip, fish stayed in dip for 50m.

In bucket #1 I immediately added .4ml of prime, this was re-used tank water that had no NH3/4, but had about 15 NO3.

Tank #2-transfered on day two, was not comfy with fish in 4 gallons of water. This was new mixed salt topped off with a little reused tank water, total about 7 gallons. I fed the fish 2x yesterday (AM and PM) before transferring into another tank, never measured any NH3 via salifert, so never added prime.

Tank #3-tested for NH3/4 today-none, this tank is 100% reused water from DT (7 gal), I will feed again tomorrow afternoon and add prime (.8ml), planning on going into tank #4 on Tuesday morning.

I am approaching this by feeding every other day while doing TTM~there is not food decaying from day 1 and exposure to prime is limited (not that it hurts).

The potter's angel I have in QT ignored brine the first time I fed him in the bucket. So I mixed brine/mysis and selcon and he took it good enough to make me happy. IDK if it was shock from the formalin dip or the lack of selcon that made him avoid food. Anyways, I was going to Prazi for a couple stages with TTM, but going forward, I really don't want to have him exposed to Prazi for almost 72 hours, so I might just do another formalin dip prior to my last TTM transfer. I don't imagine Prazi will work any better than formalin.

After TTM he will go in a 10 gallon for observation for 4-6 weeks, I will use a sponge filter that has been in the sump and 100% DT water for this period, probably doing water changes of 4 gallons or so a week.

No plans for copper, might revisit the Prazi idea, but want him eating first.

 

[snorvich]

Guess I am a little confused. My reading of TTM threads indicate Prime is used on Day 2 of each portion of the TTM to avoid ammonia spikes. Cycling is not necessary during TTM, nor are bio filters, since you have brand new (no ammonia) water every three days. In observation after TTM bio filter comes into play

Correct. In a treatment tank Prime cannot be used with copper. An observation tank (post TTM) would be best if cycled.

 

[neiltus]

So far I am at day #9 on TTM, I have done 5 changes. Both the Potter's and Goby are eating very well, I generally have been feeding them the day of the water change.

I added Prazi for 24 hours on change 3. Not sure that that did anything considering I formalin dip on arrival. Going to add Prazi again for 3 days on my Sunday morning tank change. That will give me a total of 15 days and 7 changes.

Fish will then go into a QT observation tank for 4-6 weeks. Only real concern now is the Potter's, he has a slight tuft in the soft tissue of the rear fin, and curious as to this being bacterial. I have Furan-2 on hand, should I use that as a prophy treatment during the 4-6 week observation or just watch and see if it gets worse???

Also making a huge cut on the DT PO4 using GFO.

 

[Mishri]

From my understanding treating bacterial and fungal infections (tough to ID visually the difference) can be hit or miss, as different products seem to hit different things. I'd probably begin treatment now to see if there is any change, and then trying different things. I wouldn't wait for it to become a serious problem, as most anti-fungal anti-bacterials are easy on the fish,,although some anti-bacterial will kill the beneficial bacteria as well.. I believe there is supposed to be a difference in the type of bacteria that would infect your fish vs the beneficial (gram positive vs negative) so if you get one that does kill your beneficial bacteria, it's possible it wont help your fish.. but I don't know..