Quietest way to drain into sump?

[ronbis]

I'm finishing up my DIY acrylic sump and need some input on the drain section. The tank is in my living room so I want it to be as quiet as possible.

Is the Melev type bubble tower good? Or a pvc standpipe with holes drilled in it similar to the all-glass mega flow sumps? I'm at the point where I can make it however I'd like so any ideas would be appreciated.


-Ron

 

[8BALL_99]

Melev's Bubble tower isn't really to help with noise.. Its just to cut back on Bubbles in the sump.. A Durso standpipe in the overflow and having the outlet into the sump just under the water line helps ALOT.. Other then that alot of it is just playing with the amount of air the Durso sucks in and the outlet into the sump.... HTH a lilttle

 

[JR719]

Read everything at http://www.dursostandpipes.com/. Really read about the trouble folks have had. Gives great explanation and remidy.

JR

 

[hahnmeister]

The increase in velocity as the water falls down the piping lowers the pressure and is what sucks water in. No durso, stockman, or any other noise cancelling method can get around this. All they can do it muzzle it at one end of the other. But you will still get bubbles in the sump, or a sucking sound up top...to one degree or another. If you want to get around the pressure drop all together, you need to decrease the height that the water falls into the sump. If you cant do that, you need to manipulate the pipe diameter vs flow ratio. Either a larger drainpipe, which allows air to pass freely through the center and not get sucked into the water, or by lowering the flow that you have going through the overflow, making it a 'low flow sump'.

 

[connecticut cichlids]

I use a filter sock..I have the PVC drain pipe going directly to the bottom of the filter sock..I also use a a durso standpipe inside my overflow....there is zero noise coming from the standpipe, and the filter sock with this setup

 

[RichConley]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6708291#post6708291 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by hahnmeister
The increase in velocity as the water falls down the piping lowers the pressure and is what sucks water in. No durso, stockman, or any other noise cancelling method can get around this. All they can do it muzzle it at one end of the other. But you will still get bubbles in the sump, or a sucking sound up top...to one degree or another. If you want to get around the pressure drop all together, you need to decrease the height that the water falls into the sump. If you cant do that, you need to manipulate the pipe diameter vs flow ratio. Either a larger drainpipe, which allows air to pass freely through the center and not get sucked into the water, or by lowering the flow that you have going through the overflow, making it a 'low flow sump'.

Thats not completely correct, but basically yes.


There are ways to make overflows that suck NO air. Theres a thread in General discussion called "Silent Overflows" or something a long that name. THey are completely silent, because they dont suck in any air, but they are fickle.

 

[stugray]

How about this?

You can see it working with bioballs here:

Stu

 

[KAiNE]

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=344892&perpage=25&pagenumber=1

It may not fit for your situation, but it makes silent my 3500gph.

 

[hahnmeister]

RichConley, I am aware of adjusting the overflows sometimes can achieve a very low amound of air that gets sucked in, and yes, they are fickle. The closest thing would be to try and adjust the durso/stockman so that the piping becomes a sort of full syphon...but when this happens, it will purge/clear the pipe because it will accelerate.

Until someone figures out a way to negate the effects of gravity on water (perhaps a multi-stage weir system rather than a downpipe?), a drainpipe will always result in more being sucked in at the top than comes out the bottom, and that means air will get sucked in. The laws of conservation of energy dictate it to be true.

 

[KAiNE]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6710431#post6710431 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by hahnmeister
Until someone figures out a way to negate the effects of gravity on water (perhaps a multi-stage weir system rather than a downpipe?), a drainpipe will always result in more being sucked in at the top than comes out the bottom, and that means air will get sucked in. The laws of conservation of energy dictate it to be true.

Air will not always be sucked in.
I have NO air in my drains.

If you control the output to match the input as in the thread i linked to above, you can and will achieve this.
Yes... there are issues associated with it but i have overcome mine with my flow and with dual overflows. If your flow rate is low (<1000gph) or you only have one overflow, its even easier.
My pumps and skimmer are in the next room, other than my canopy fans, my tank is silent.

With the above method, I only deal with about 1 gallon flux, this isn't enough to skew my salinity.

I will also say that if had <500gph flow I would use a durso.

-Peace

 

[hahnmeister]

Well, if your overflows are not sucking any air in, and they cant be sucking any extra water in than what they need (or they would act like a surge device and go through surges), you have set up your overflow to be a tightly adjusted syphon, not an overflow.

 

[KAiNE]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6711526#post6711526 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by hahnmeister
Well, if your overflows are not sucking any air in, and they cant be sucking any extra water in than what they need (or they would act like a surge device and go through surges), you have set up your overflow to be a tightly adjusted syphon, not an overflow.

You are somewhat correct... it is a "controlled" siphon with an emergency overflow. It doesnt have to be "tightly" adjusted either. Read the thread for more info.

Basically put a gate valve on your drain and turn it down until it raises the water above the pipe inside the overflow. The higher the water is above the pipe the more pressure it applies thereby flowing more water so it doesn't have to be perfect. You must use an emergency drain and screen your pipe to keep out snails that could get stuck at the gate valve.

Check out that thread i linked to above, it explains in far more detail.
This method is not for everyone. You must have an emergency drain or some other method of draining should you have an issue.

If i remember, i will post up a pic or some video showing this in action.


-Peace

 

[hahnmeister]

I get it. Its the same method DNA used in his TOTM a few months back. I was considering using it myself until I figured out another way to run my overflow directly into the skimmer (another attribute of this kind of overflow). Its pretty much a siphon with a backup standpipe. I like it, but for most, like you said...its either too complicated to make work right, or just plain impossible depending on your piping/overflow height, drop to the sump, etc. You have to have all three to be 'just right' in order to even adjust an overflow that well. I used to have a tank that was setup like that actually...but without the backup standpipe. The problem was that even with the siphon asjusted 'just right'...sooner or later, the thing would flush...and that was annoying. Not to mention the constant adjusting of the output and everything. I think in that case, my downpipe was too large to maintain the constant overflow, even with the valve.

I just dont like it because its too 'iffy'.

The low flow/large pipe methos works great for me though. I can even run it like an oversized durso so that the noise gets trapped in the pipe. Its silent.

 

[ronbis]

Connecticut Cichlids,

How far down does the PVC sit in the water? How much of the filter sock is submerged? Thanks.

-Ron

 

[Stile2]

Try this.

1) two drains working together.

2) One drain is a straight pipe with a gate valve with a big enough diameter so it can handle all of the gph

3) second drain is a Durso that is taller than the straight pipe by at least 1"-2" should also be able to handle all the gph

4) adjust gate valve until the straight pipe is completely submerged, NO air being sucked in

5) keep slowing flow until the Durso is handling anything the the straight pipe is not.

the point is that sucking air is usually the noisiest part of the system. Durso are very silent if you aren't pushing to much flow through them. This system addresses both issues.

I can't take credit for the idea I read it here on RC.

Keith

 

[KAiNE]

Mine never "flushes".

I keep both pipes (2"PVC with a screen, no bends) about 6" below the water in the overflows. It does flux, i am not sure why. I thought at first it was barometric pressure changes but that's not it. It actually is looking like moon phases...believe that or not. In a few more months Ill have enough data to say for sure.

I agree... for lower flows a Durso is more than adequate.

I really think the thread i linked to above explains this pretty well.

Stile2 - that is another good idea. This will keep the level in the overflows stable.