Quinine Sulfate Power

[rinconmike]

I bought some Quinine Sulfate Power from National Fish Pharm.

I am using it in my 55 gallon QT.

The bottle says to treat every 24 hours for 10 days.

I emailed National Fish Pharm and the response was just one treatment is fine.

Anyone have comments on one treatment.

Some history on mt QT, I currently have two azure damsels, a dotty back and one coral beauty angel. This fish have been in there for around 10 weeks. I also had a clown and 2 chromis that died early on.

Day 1, Week 0: got fish

Day 7, Week 1: After the first week in the QT, the clown showed signs of Brooklynella. I tried a fresh water dip but think I did it too long and the clown died in the dip. I did treat the tank with three treatments of Quick cure (one dose a day for three days). All the fish seemed fine.

Day 21, Week 3: I treated with one dose of quinine to make sure there was no ich in the tank. One chromis died around the same time and another several weeks later (I forget).

Day 35, Week 5: I treated the tank with Prazipro to make sure no flukes or anything.

Day 42, Week 6: Another dose of Prazi

I have not treated the tank since.

It is now around day 77 (11 weeks) and the four fish seem fine.

No sign of Brook or ich. I am debating on doing Quinine again if I did not do it right before. Also, I am debating on Formalin MS in case there is brook in the tank and the fish are carrying it, but not showing it.

Any thoughts will be appreciated.

thanks,

Mike

 

[MrTuskfish]

If the fish were in a tank for this long with brooklynella, you'd know it. Just to be clear: all this has been happening in your QT---quarantine tank? Why are the fish in quarantine, just routine prevention prior to going into your main tank? If I follow, you've had no signs of any parasite in about 10 weeks? If so, there is no need to medicate again. BTW, from everything I've heard and read about Quinine Sulfate; one dose isn't enough; but I see no reason to start treating again. Assuming you've been carefully inspecting all fish for parasites during this QT period.

 

[rinconmike]

These are new fish that I put in Quarantine Tank before the display. They are still in the QT. I am not in a rush to move them (rare for me).

I probably have not been inspecting the fish enough. I only look at them a few minutes every couple of days.

My concern with Brook is the 3 days of Quick Cure was not enough and the fish I have are just not affected by it but carry it.

The same with ich. I just want to make sure they do not have it, even though I see no signs of it.

thanks,

Mike

 

[MrTuskfish]

I can't keep up with all the parasite cures; "Quick Cure' is a combination of 37% formalin and malachite green, if I remember right. That's basically the same as Formalin MS. If you haven't had a brooklynella outbreak in 8+ weeks, I think you're safe. I've never heard of resistant forms of brook cysts that could survive that long. Perhaps giving fish a Formalin dip; between the QT and the DT wouldn't hurt and give you peace of mind. I consider Formalin more of a "dip" med than a "tank" med. Its taken me a while to figure out your QT routine. At first, it seemed totally random; but now makes sense. If all your fish are "spotless", I think you'll be fine. But, this is far from my QT routine and my comments are based on knowledge of the parasites and meds involved....not first hand experience, especially with the QS.

 

[rinconmike]

My QT process here was random.

Once I realized I had Brook, I had to treat.

I was going to also do separate treatments of Prazi and Cupramine, but decided to try Quinine instead of Cupramine.

- Original plan was to observe for a week.
- Do 30 days of Cupramine
- Then 1 week of carbon to pull out Cupramine,
- Then 2 weeks of Prazi,
- Then one week of Carbon,
Then put in display.

I wound up doing what I did. I went away for a couple of weeks so decided to just keep in QT longer. Now I am back, I need to decide to treat a little more or just put in display.

 

[ackee]

Sulphathiazole sodium will beat the pants off any of the mentioned treatments. It's hard to find in its instant dissolving sodium form. Non-sodium sulphathiazole is worthless. The real stuff, used in a quarantine tank at about a half teaspoon per 10 gallons will kill parasites and treat the skin infections left at the attachment points. It's by far more effective than anything I've ever used.

Mr. Tuskfish, I noticed your tag. People are made out of meat also. In fact, Polynesians pointed this out to missionaries when they tried to sell them on the absurd idea that God did not want us to eat other people. "Then why did God make us out of meat?" A debate-winning reply.

 

[MrTuskfish]

Mr. Tuskfish, I noticed your tag. People are made out of meat also. In fact, Polynesians pointed this out to missionaries when they tried to sell them on the absurd idea that God did not want us to eat other people. "Then why did God make us out of meat?" A debate-winning reply.

You win the debate; assuming you can provide a source for the Polynesian's comment. My tag is just a tongue-in cheek un-PC remark that reflects my personality. I guess that's why its called a ''signature". But, who knows, what if the Polynesians were right?

BTW; a good, documented account of Sulphathiazole sodium would be well received, I'm sure. There have been so many accounts of various sulfa and quinine drugs lately; that's its become impossible to know what's what. I've read and discussed many of them with several hobbyists and companies. Lots of anecdotal accounts but real facts and sources are really lacking (IMO).....thanks!

 

[ackee]

I'm not sure what would constitute a good documented source regarding the use of Sodium Sulphathiozole. There is a lot of anecdotal material from a few decades ago, when the stuff was easily available. Farmers used it to treat livestock by dissolving it in drinking water. The problem was that it was overused and wound up in the muscle tissue of animals meant for human consumption. When I was a serious fish collector I used it often. It was the best treatment I've ever seen. I used some last summer on a friend's Longnosed Butterfly. He'd picked it up from a lfs and it came down with serious ich while by itself in a quarantine tank. It was heavily parasitized and starting to have difficulty respiring. Copper was ineffective. S. Sulphathiazole did the trick very quickly. The fish began taking food after three days and no reoccurence to date.

I first heard of it from the late Bob Straughan, in his wonderful and still fascinating 1959 book. He wrote it before the nitrogen cycle was understood, but some of his comments are still relevant. The drug was also written about several times in The Marine Aquarist, an excellent magazine that went under a back in the early 80s. Most current experts have not had access to the drug because its availability was greatly restricted years ago, and what they are unfamiliar with is always suspect.

Like so many things, the literature tends to be repetitive, a circle limited by the experiences of a very few. Don't forget that copper kept in solution by citric acid and used as a medication was a deep dark secret jealously guarded by a major California aquarium for a long time. A knowlege of history can be instructive. Sodium S. can still be obtained, with difficulty. It's my fallback, and I always keep some on hand.

This is completely from memory, to the best of my ability: The Rev. John Williams, missionary to the Sandwitch Islands (Hawaii) in the 1820s mentioned the exchange in one of his letters, a copy of which I had access to, and which is in the collection of missionary correspondence maintained by a Methodist organization in New Zealand. The conversation is also, I think, mentioned in his journals, which should available in any good university collection. Williams himself was, if I remember correctly, eaten. It's been a long, long time since I was in graduate school. Please let me assure you that the "why did God make us out of meat" rationale has been around for a couple of centuries. I came across it in grad school in the 60s.

 

[MrTuskfish]

I had a friend in Law School (circa 1974) who had a running joke arguing that laws prohibiting cannibalism violated the establishment Clause of the First Amendment. Given the latitude of Court decisions since then, he may be able to win that argument now.