Quinine Sulphate treatment for ICH!

blennielove

New member
Greetings to all at Reef Central!
Recently I had an ich outbreak in my 225 gallon reef tank. My Powder Blue Tang got the first signs, then my Atlantic Tang, Kole Tang, Flame Angel, Filament Wrasse, Cleaner Wrasse, Lubbock's Wrasse, Clown Fairy Wrasse, and two Neon Gobies.
I wasted time by attempting to treat with "REEF SAFE" products: Ich Attack, Herbtana, Kick Ich. There were all REEF SAFE. I can't say they killed ich because my fish still had them, but I cannot say that they did not help them completely as they did not decline in health until after two weeks. But this delay caused the lives of the Kole Tang and two Neon Gobies, my Filament wrasse dove into the sand and has not been out since.
So, on Thanksgiving night I enjoyed moving 260 pounds of live rock and corals out of my tank to catch the fishes. PBT, AT, KT, FA, CW, LW, CFW are currently doing much better in a 55 gallon hospital tank. PBT and AT were treated with a pH and temperature matched fresh water dip prior to entering the hospital tank.
I then treated with hyposalinity that was dropped over 3 days to 1.009 and then raised over 3 days to 1.020. (Yeah - they did not stay at 1.009 for more than 36 hours as I decided to treat with the Quinine and I needed to bring salinity back up.)
Tonight is day 1 of Quinine Phosphate treatment.
I dosed at 1/4 teaspoon per 10 gallons. I recommend that you mix this medication in some tank water prior to putting it in the tank - it sort of clumped up when put directly in the tank but it is slowly dissolving.
I contacted National Fish Pharmacy due to conflicting information regarding dosing schedule. Dr. Aukes there recommended to do ONE treatment and let the medication sit in there without a water change for seven days. Then a 50 percent water change at the end of seven days.
Make sure that UV, protein skimmer are turned OFF.
Remove all carbon, Purigen, etc.
Since giving medications, all fishes are looking fine without any signs of additional stress. They are actively eating (by the way - Nat'l Fish Pharm recommends that you DO NOT FEED during treatment to keep water parameters in acceptable range.) I will be feeding some because I think it is good that they eat but will be monitoring parameters closely and will use water that I'm made up especially with the purpose of changing water if needed. (20 gallon tank with SG 1.023 and 1/2 teaspoon of Quinine premade on the same date - this way, I believe that the medications will have the same effectiveness with it's half life.)
I had read at WWM.com that light should be turned off. Dr. Aukes explained that only UV light would affect the medication. Lights will be on regular timer for 14 hour cycles.
I'm excited to be sharing this!
If anyone else has experience with Quinine Sulphate, please chime in!:bounce3:
 
Thanks blennie for logging your quinine treatment. Do you know if you can use Amquel + or Prime to control ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate? Does your fish still have ich spots before treatment began? Also did you order the Quinine Sulphate or the retail Crypto Pro stuff?

So after 7 days and you still see signs of ich do you go with the 3 x / 9 day treatment?
 
I'm not sure if you can use Amquel + or Prime to control ammonia, nitrite, or nitrate. I didn't ask NationalFishPharmacy because I don't normally use products like these. I will give them a call tomorrow and ask them.

They tell me NOT TO FEED fishes during treatment to keep parameters in check.

My fishes were looking much improved before starting the quinine treatment, but I can't see ich too well with the lighting in the hospital tank if they are still there. Behaviorally, though, my Atlantic Blue Tang has been doing a lot of scratching, so I believe it is still there but just LESS.

I ordered Quinine Sulphate from NationalFishPharmacy.com and had them overnight it. They are very nice people there!

I'll keep you updated. I'm hoping and praying that all will be cleared after 7 days, but I think I would have to wait at least 2 weeks before I see re-infection if any.
 
They tell you not to feed for a reason......Chloriquine will totaly destroy the bacteria in your system that breaks down ammonia and nitrite both deadly to fish. I would follow the instructions exactly how they tell you or you might be doing more harm then good to your fish.

I don't like that treatment because there is no way to test how much is in your system and it kills your biological filtration. Make sure if your fish make it thru the treatment you remove it and monitor the fish in the QT after the chloriquine has been removed for a week or so.
 
They tell you not to feed for a reason......Chloriquine will totaly destroy the bacteria in your system that breaks down ammonia and nitrite both deadly to fish. I would follow the instructions exactly how they tell you or you might be doing more harm then good to your fish.

I don't like that treatment because there is no way to test how much is in your system and it kills your biological filtration. Make sure if your fish make it thru the treatment you remove it and monitor the fish in the QT after the chloriquine has been removed for a week or so.

The treatment is in my bare bottom hospital tank. I don't believe there is much if any biological filtration there to be concerned about.

I'm not sure that quinine sulphate would "destroy" the bacteria because quinine is used for parasites, specifically protozoans such as Cryptocaryon irritans and the malaria causing Plasmodium.
 
The treatment is in my bare bottom hospital tank. I don't believe there is much if any biological filtration there to be concerned about.

I'm not sure that quinine sulphate would "destroy" the bacteria because quinine is used for parasites, specifically protozoans such as Cryptocaryon irritans and the malaria causing Plasmodium.


Bare bottom does not matter....What are you using as filtration? Whatever it is the chloriquine is going to destroy it. When the biological filtration is destroyed you have nothing to convert ammonia to nitrites and from nitrites to nitrates. Ammonia and nitrites are both deadly to fish.
 
I have used it on several occasions now and have never had any problems with my filtration.I feed as much as they will eat and i change water only once a week.I use a 55g qt witrh barebottom and pvc.My filtration is an aquaclear 70 and i also have a powerhead.
 
I have used it on several occasions now and have never had any problems with my filtration.I feed as much as they will eat and i change water only once a week.I use a 55g qt witrh barebottom and pvc.My filtration is an aquaclear 70 and i also have a powerhead.


Do you test for ammonia?
 
Bare bottom does not matter....What are you using as filtration? Whatever it is the chloriquine is going to destroy it. When the biological filtration is destroyed you have nothing to convert ammonia to nitrites and from nitrites to nitrates. Ammonia and nitrites are both deadly to fish.

I'm using a sponge filter run by power head in one corner, Magnum 350 with micron filter in another, and a Penguin 400(?) in another.
There is NO biological filtration here!
Waste will change to ammonia and I will take it down by doing a partial water change...
 
Up date on 18 hours after starting Quinine Sulphate:

To believe my fishes were "better" prior to quinine - I was so wrong! Today, I can see all these spots from where the fishes were scratching and were the ich were buried in the fishes skin. I think that either this is the second hatching/eruption of ich OR that the quinine made them pop off and so now I see where the ich were.

The fishes are still behaving well, the PBtang is a little shy today because I think he had the MOST ich and the Atlantic Blue Tang is eating the best today in a long while.

Thanks to Keith for your input and I feel more hopeful to hear that you've also used quinine before. Would you please share how you dosed it and how long your treatment periods were?
 
I'm using a sponge filter run by power head in one corner, Magnum 350 with micron filter in another, and a Penguin 400(?) in another.
There is NO biological filtration here!
Waste will change to ammonia and I will take it down by doing a partial water change...

Oh boy....Good Luck....Odds are you are going to kill your fish with amonnia and Nitrites.

But I wish you luck. Hope your doing water changes daily at least.
 
I dosed the tank left for 3 days..on the 4th i change 20g and redose.I do this 4 times then change water and run carbon,The instructions say not to treat for more then 13 days so i take it to about the max.If i was running a smaller qt like 10-20g i would prob do water changes daily and redose daily.I always keep an ammonia badge on my qt tanks and am quite successful in my qt regime.The only thing i done like about quinine sulfate is that i cant dose prazipro at the same time like i can with cupramine.
 
Oh boy....Good Luck....Odds are you are going to kill your fish with amonnia and Nitrites.

But I wish you luck. Hope your doing water changes daily at least.

You know, when I started this thread, I expected to hear of people's opinions and experiences. You obviously did not read my first opening post about my plans for water changes and watching parameters. I appreciate your concerns for my ammonia and nitrites but please let me take care of that. I would appreciate you not "cursing" my fishes with death.
If you would like to suggest ways of resolving the ammonia and nitrite issues, I'm sure I and many people reading would appreciate that but if you are just going to comment about ammonia and nitrite issues, I'm sure there are threads specifically discussing ammonia and nitrites.
 
Were you able to contact fish pharmacy to see if you can use Amquel + or Prime?

I just spoke with them and they said yes. You can use quinine with Amquel + or Prime.

I personally have never used these products but now I know that they can be used, I'll look into it.
 
I dosed the tank left for 3 days..on the 4th i change 20g and redose.I do this 4 times then change water and run carbon,The instructions say not to treat for more then 13 days so i take it to about the max.If i was running a smaller qt like 10-20g i would prob do water changes daily and redose daily.I always keep an ammonia badge on my qt tanks and am quite successful in my qt regime.The only thing i done like about quinine sulfate is that i cant dose prazipro at the same time like i can with cupramine.

I noticed that you use quinine for QT? I was just thinking about this for future fish acclimation procedure. Where did you get the ammonia badge? I didn't know there was such a thing! :)
Do you then follow with a prazipro treatment or do you do it prior to quinine?
How long is your QT procedure, I've read anywhere from 2 weeks to 8 weeks - yikes!
 
You seem to know everything about the treatment you are performing so my suggestions are not needed. Like I said i wish you the best of luck.....

Copper does not "destroy" your biological filtration and it treats parasites.

As I mentioned earlier chloriquine is not a treatment that is real popular on the threads. It can't be tested and requires ridiculous water changes to control amonnia.

You should set up a QT just like you would any other tank. Letting bacteria establish so you don't have amonnia problems. You can do that by leaving a filter media in your main tank that can be transfered over.
 
I always treat with prazipro so when useing quinine sulfate i make sure to finish treatment and run carbon for a week and do another water change then i start my prazipro which i will dose then wait 5 days,do a water change then redose and wait 6 or 7 days.I then run carbon again.I usually try to keep new fish in qt for 6 to 8 weeks depending on how they look and if i need to get them eating first before i can start adding meds HTH Kieth
 
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