Radium vs 10k

[jackson6745]

Call me a dork but I'm glad you replied to this thread. You've got what I have long believed to be the best looking tank on reef central. I've seen the pics of the new AC bulb you switched to. They look fantastic. Would you think there to be any benefit to growth and color for Lps corals in particular with this switch? New bulb time is soon upon me as these radiums are approaching a year old now. Considering those AC bulbs as they're one of the only other mogul bulbs designed for an m80 ballast which I run. I am not really keeping acropora anymore unfortunately so I don't really need the par. I love the color I get out of the radiums but the tank is still a touch blue.

Thanks Bpb. I don't think the AC bulb will benefit the LPS in anyway over the Radium. Actually, the LPS colors look better under the radium. If my focus was on LPS I would stick with the radium. A year is a long time for a radium on an M80 ballast. That bulb likely lost spectrum + intensity many months ago. A new radium should look whiter.

 

[JB NY]

I am on One week so far with the 10K's and they are pretty yellow. Even running with 400 watts of led blue and 8 T5's it still looks yellow. No changes in the coral color but I am seeing a lot of new growth tips. The Coraline Algae is also getting much more of a Rich color. The Reds and Purples look great.

In another note, I am not sure how they published that the par was double that of the radium. I measured par at the waters surface with the electric setting and the XM10K was about 1800 and the 6 month old radium's was about 1600. I am not buying it.

I was one of the people who measured the XM10K and the radium (for 250 watt lamps), and it absolutely puts out much more PAR than a radium bulb. The radium is bright for a 20K bulb but dim compared to most other bulbs. The yellow is one of two things, your eyes are so used to windex colored tanks that the bulb looks yellow, or our your water is yellow. Most people's water is yellow but it is masked by the blue from 20K lamps. 10K will absolutely show the tank as yellow if the water is not pristine.

I am with jackson6745 the AquaConnect 14K is a really good middle ground bulb. I switched from 10K to the Aquaconnect and ran it for about 5 years. It grows coral just as good as a 10K and you get the nice white blue color but not as blue as a radium.

I am currently using a Radium bulb but thinking of switching back to the Aquaconnect as the growth with the radium is not what I would like.

 

[cleverbs]

If I ran 3x 10k 250w MH and 4x Blue+ 80w T5Ho's what look would I have? Like a 16k?

 

[USAFReefer]

I was one of the people who measured the XM10K and the radium (for 250 watt lamps), and it absolutely puts out much more PAR than a radium bulb.

Does that extra PAR matter if it falls in the green/yellow/orange spectrum? Does the extra PAR have any positive influence on PUR for corals?

I never found any myself using the XM 10k, Phoenix 14k, and the Radium 20k for several years each, SE bulbs on M80 ballast. All seemed to grow corals pretty equally for me so in my case it came down to personal preference over PAR values. Personally, I liked the Phoenix 14k the best for viewing, but 'looks' of a bulb is very subjective so to each their own on that aspect.

 

[cleverbs]

Been down this road before, here are some pictures that may help with your decision.

XM10k on Icecap Electronic Ballast

XM10k on M80 Magnetic Ballast

PAR readings of XM 10k

PAR readings of Radium 20k

I find it very stange the par is so low on the radium, I took a PAR reading from my Hamilton Cebu Sea fixture with Radiums on a M80 ballast and I have 1000par in the center at water surface, then as I reach the outside of the fixture is evenly drops from 1000 to 800 on the water surface of on the very side of the tank.

If this is the case what on earth would my par reading be with XM10ks?

 

[JB NY]

I find it very stange the par is so low on the radium, I took a PAR reading from my Hamilton Cebu Sea fixture with Radiums on a M80 ballast and I have 1000par in the center at water surface, then as I reach the outside of the fixture is evenly drops from 1000 to 800 on the water surface of on the very side of the tank.

If this is the case what on earth would my par reading be with XM10ks?

reflectors play a huge role in how much PAR you get. I tested with the sensor 8" from the bulb in a black box (to take the reflector out of the equation), and got XM10K PAR readings of 530, 600 and 835 for Icecap, M58, and M80 ballasts. Radium PAR is 330, 283, and 395 for the same ballasts.

 

[JB NY]

Does that extra PAR matter if it falls in the green/yellow/orange spectrum? Does the extra PAR have any positive influence on PUR for corals?

I never found any myself using the XM 10k, Phoenix 14k, and the Radium 20k for several years each, SE bulbs on M80 ballast. All seemed to grow corals pretty equally for me so in my case it came down to personal preference over PAR values. Personally, I liked the Phoenix 14k the best for viewing, but 'looks' of a bulb is very subjective so to each their own on that aspect.

I think the look of the light should play a role in what you choose. You can get good growth with all those you listed, but I found the XM10K gave me the best growth for acros hands down. But not everyone needs or wants that kind of growth. I eventually switched to an Aquaconnect lamp and it was more than enough growth and I liked the color of the lamp better.

 

[cleverbs]

Do they make a 10k Bulb that will run in an M80 Mogul ballast? I run Radiums but would love to try a 10k Bulb to see what are better in my setup. I just dont know if 4 460nm blue t5s will take the yellow out of it. I dont like it really blue. In fact I cant stand my light with the 20k radiums AND t5s on. When my MH come on my t5s go off and even that is a bit blue.

 

[JB NY]

They don't, an M80 ballast is really only for DE bulbs and bulbs that don't have an ignitor built in. The M80 ballast is great for it's purpose, but doesn't give you a lot of options outside of that.

 

[USAFReefer]

Do they make a 10k Bulb that will run in an M80 Mogul ballast? I run Radiums but would love to try a 10k Bulb to see what are better in my setup. I just dont know if 4 460nm blue t5s will take the yellow out of it. I dont like it really blue. In fact I cant stand my light with the 20k radiums AND t5s on. When my MH come on my t5s go off and even that is a bit blue.

Do they make a SE bulb that doesn't run on an M80 ballast? Every bulb I have tried was SE and all worked on the M80, just didn't last as long as on a electronic ballast and every bulb is over driven differently, but the XM 10k was by far the largest gap, being a 250w bulb and being run at 330+w. All others tended to run at 300w or less.

 

[cleverbs]

Would I be able to just get cheap Mogul 10k Bulbs off ebay and replace them every 6months on an m80 ballast? Or is an XM 10k Different in some way?

 

[JB NY]

You can run any SE bulb off the M80, but most are not made for it, so you are over driving the bulb, which may or mat not decrease the life of the bulb.

All the 10K lamps are a little different, different color, different PAR readings, different usable life. The XM10K is unique in that is puts out a tremendous amount of PAR and it is not nearly as yellow as other 10K bulbs. Also when on the correct ballast it only loses about 10% of it's PAR output over the coarse of a year.

 

[cleverbs]

You can run any SE bulb off the M80, but most are not made for it, so you are over driving the bulb, which may or mat not decrease the life of the bulb.

All the 10K lamps are a little different, different color, different PAR readings, different usable life. The XM10K is unique in that is puts out a tremendous amount of PAR and it is not nearly as yellow as other 10K bulbs. Also when on the correct ballast it only loses about 10% of it's PAR output over the coarse of a year.

So if thats the case then cant we assume that one being over driven by about 20-30% will reduce the life by about that much if at all? I may have to try it out and take a par reading when I get the bulb and take the reading every 3 months to see what happens.

 

[USAFReefer]

It's hard to say how long they would last/build quality. An M80 may make an ebay special bulb explode when turning it on, or they may last 9 months, or anything in between. Without knowing how much wattage it pulls it is hard to say how long the bulb will last.

Normal MH bulbs run on electronic ballast last 9 months tops to me. A rough estimate I came up with is for every 20w extra you push to the bulb reduces its life by a month, only the Radium being the exception as it is designed to be run on the M80, so you get 9 months out of the bulb even though your pushing 25w more to it.

 

[cleverbs]

It's hard to say how long they would last/build quality. An M80 may make an ebay special bulb explode when turning it on, or they may last 9 months, or anything in between. Without knowing how much wattage it pulls it is hard to say how long the bulb will last.

Normal MH bulbs run on electronic ballast last 9 months tops to me. A rough estimate I came up with is for every 20w extra you push to the bulb reduces its life by a month, only the Radium being the exception as it is designed to be run on the M80, so you get 9 months out of the bulb even though your pushing 25w more to it.

I have read that 14k Pheonix bulbs are also made for an M80 ballast

 

[USAFReefer]

My PAR readings on the Phoenix told me it lasted 6-7 months on the M80. I always replaced the Phoenix at 6 months, but when a person replaces their bulbs is up to them. My 'time to replace' is 80% output. Others go 70% an get another month or two out of the bulb. There is no hard rule on when to replace a bulb if your tank is still looking good and growing.

Another big factor is time run per day. Some run their MH 6 hrs a day and get a year out of the bulb while others run it 10 hrs a day and get 7 months, so that is very important to know when hearing other peoples bulb life experience. I ran my MH 9 hours a day, noon-9pm for MH and 11am-10pm for T5HO actinics.

 

[tdb320reef]

14k Aquaconnet was the answer for me. This bulb gives that crazy blue pop like the 10k reeflux, but the overall spectrum is not overly blue. I run a 400w AC 14k with 3 blue+ 1 purple+, and 2 blue led reefbrite. The par and spectrum bring a tear to my eye lol

PAR at the water surface with this halide was 820. I thought that was kind of high. Corals love it though.

I decided to run XM10K's and the corals were in an average par of 800. Some of them grew faster some bleached so switching gears again.

With that said I am going to switch to the AC 14K. Do you run yours T5's at the same time? Do these bulbs have a yellow appearance? I am looking for a crisp white Similar to ATI Aqua Special.

 

[jda]

Hamilton 10K is a really nice crisp white bulb. I think that I have one with a few months left - PM me if you want me to mail it to you to try.

FWIW - I have run 10K phoenix on M80 at 9 hours a day for 18 months. No issues and no acclimation or response from the coral when I switch them - you cannot even tell.