Raising copper too fast

[b0bab0ey]

So I picked up a CB Butterfly and Royal Gramma last Friday and put them in a 29g QT. There was also supposed to be a CB Angel but of course now I find out he's coming in this Thursday. The Butterfly started twitching his head on Saturday (no other symptoms) so I decided to start treating with Prazi. He stopped twitching but last night I noticed Ich on his tail/fins. After waving a cross in front of the tank and throwing a little holy water/garlic on him , I decided it was time to bust out the Cupramine. The initial dose brought my copper level up to 0.2. My problem is the Butterfly is looking much worse this morning, Ich all over his body, breathing heavy, hanging near the top, etc. So I'm debating whether to hit the tank with another dose of Cupramine today or wait the 48 hrs until Wednesday night (as per the directions). I also have that Dwarf Angel coming in on Thursday and trying to decide how to deal with that.

Thoughts? Suggestions?

 

[geaux xman]

if hes eating okay i'd wait a day and dose to .30ppm and keep it there. butterflies dont handle higher levels of cupramine as well IMO/IME.

 

[b0bab0ey]

if hes eating okay i'd wait a day and dose to .30ppm and keep it there. butterflies dont handle higher levels of cupramine as well IMO/IME.

He's laying on the bottom now. He was eating mysis great just last night. I'm 100% sure he doesn't have Velvet. I think I'm gonna try a f/w dip as it doesn't look like I've got much to lose.

 

[MrTuskfish]

He's laying on the bottom now. He was eating mysis great just last night. I'm 100% sure he doesn't have Velvet. I think I'm gonna try a f/w dip as it doesn't look like I've got much to lose.

No, not much to lose. But a dip doesn't do anything for ich, but flukes in the gills could be a problem too. Its really frustrating when you know what to do but the damn parasites have already done their damage. I lost a gorgeous true Falcula butterfly, under almost the exact same circumstances, about a month ago. His replacement ( a "guarantee" fish" is in my QT now and doing very well.) On the plus side (well, other than the guarantee) : can you imagine that fish going straight to a DT with no QT? Also, IMO, you could easily raise Cupramine to about .35 now; but I think we both know the BF is in real trouble.

 

[b0bab0ey]

No, not much to lose. But a dip doesn't do anything for ich, but flukes in the gills could be a problem too. Its really frustrating when you know what to do but the damn parasites have already done their damage. I lost a gorgeous true Falcula butterfly, under almost the exact same circumstances, about a month ago. His replacement ( a "guarantee" fish" is in my QT now and doing very well.) On the plus side (well, other than the guarantee) : can you imagine that fish going straight to a DT with no QT?

Yeah, the thing is I've never seen Ich kill this fast before. So I'm starting to wonder if it's not something else. He showed no external symptoms of Ich until last night and then today BAM! He was twitching his head on Saturday, but I didn't want to stress a new fish with a f/w dip so I just started the Prazi treatment. Head twitching stopped on Sunday and I haven't seen it since. And then the Ich showed itself on only his fins last night. I checked him over thoroughly every single day.

Just did the f/w dip. He's still on the bottom, breathing hard. Just checked for ammonia, 0. Seachem badge also shows 0 ammonia. Don't know what else I can do for him.

 

[MrTuskfish]

Yeah, the thing is I've never seen Ich kill this fast before. So I'm starting to wonder if it's not something else. He showed no external symptoms of Ich until last night and then today BAM! He was twitching his head on Saturday, but I didn't want to stress a new fish with a f/w dip so I just started the Prazi treatment. Head twitching stopped on Sunday and I haven't seen it since. And then the Ich showed itself on only his fins last night. I checked him over thoroughly every single day.

Just did the f/w dip. He's still on the bottom, breathing hard. Just checked for ammonia, 0. Seachem badge also shows 0 ammonia. Don't know what else I can do for him.

Some folks just don't believe ich can act this fast. Is it just the over-stressed new fish or a more aggressive strain of ich? Who knows? I had ich kill a very healthy PinkFace Wrasse in 2 days. This was after a week of eating & PraziPro, but before copper. Never showed any sign, one morning covered with ich; next evening, burial by plumbing.

 

[b0bab0ey]

Some folks just don't believe ich can act this fast. Is it just the over-stressed new fish or a more aggressive strain of ich? Who knows? I had ich kill a very healthy PinkFace Wrasse in 2 days. This was after a week of eating & PraziPro, but before copper. Never showed any sign, one morning covered with ich; next evening, burial by plumbing.

I've got him in a fish trap now, as he was getting blown all over the tank by the powerfilter/powerhead. He doesn't look good at all, mostly just laying on his side breathing hard. I know from experience that he's a goner. He's either succumbing to Ich or having a really bad reaction to the copper.

So, do you think I should just wait it out or do WCs/run carbon to take all the copper out? I know it seems counterproductive as I was just asking if I should raise the copper. But if he's having a bad reaction to the copper... Ugh! :headwallblue:

 

[sandwi54]

I think most of the time ich is a slower killer if the fish is healthy, but when stress is present (new environment, bad water quality, etc.) ich can and will kill very fast. I lost a six-line wrasse to ich within 2 days.

I don't think there's much you can do right now... but honestly, i would remove the copper. copper doesn't do anything until the theronts are formed, but if the CB is reacting to copper, it would kill him if you raise the copper. Do you have other small tanks that you can transfer him to temporarily and perform hypo?

 

[b0bab0ey]

I think most of the time ich is a slower killer if the fish is healthy, but when stress is present (new environment, bad water quality, etc.) ich can and will kill very fast. I lost a six-line wrasse to ich within 2 days.

I don't think there's much you can do right now... but honestly, i would remove the copper. copper doesn't do anything until the theronts are formed, but if the CB is reacting to copper, it would kill him if you raise the copper. Do you have other small tanks that you can transfer him to temporarily and perform hypo?

I put carbon in the HOB filter to take the copper out. Unfortunately, it was too little too late. The CB died. Now the Royal Gramma is on his deathbed. I've checked and re-checked pH, ammonia, copper, etc. Everything shows fine. I can only assume it was the Ich. Man, I haven't had this happen in at least 10 years. I forgot how depressing it is.

Honestly, I'm now just waiting for the Royal Gramma to die so I can dump the tank. I have that CB Angel coming in on Thursday whether I like it or not. I'm gonna rinse the tank/equipment thoroughly with tap and also wipe it down with vinegar. I'm assuming that should kill any Ich.

 

[sandwi54]

I put carbon in the HOB filter to take the copper out. Unfortunately, it was too little too late. The CB died. Now the Royal Gramma is on his deathbed. I've checked and re-checked pH, ammonia, copper, etc. Everything shows fine. I can only assume it was the Ich. Man, I haven't had this happen in at least 10 years. I forgot how depressing it is.

Honestly, I'm now just waiting for the Royal Gramma to die so I can dump the tank. I have that CB Angel coming in on Thursday whether I like it or not. I'm gonna rinse the tank/equipment thoroughly with tap and also wipe it down with vinegar. I'm assuming that should kill any Ich.

Sorry to hear that... some fish just don't make it I guess. It sucks