Ray/Shark Tank

[hinesassociates]

Hey Guys,

I am currently looking into setting up a Stingray/Shark tank. I consider myself newish to aquariums. I have had a total of 3 tanks, each for about 2 years. My first tank was 30 gal freshwater. A couple years later I converted it to salt. And my 3rd tank was a tiny nano-something or other. So as you can see my experience was all with pretty small tanks. I have had relatively decent success with fish (though I may or may not have had my rebellious "I dont care if you think I can fit 30 different fish of all different kinds that hate eachother in the same tank...") I have lived and learned as they say. I would like to do this tank correctly. I have all the time in the world and want to do everything right. (I also may or may not have had my rebellious "What do you mean I have to cycle my tank... 2 days should be plenty...") Also I am doing specifics now so it should cut down on the issues with tank mates.

Ok so now that you know a little about me, I come asking for help... I need some advice, especially from someone who has ray/shark experience if possible, but all advice is welcome!

Here is some info on my setup:
1. I think the tank is 80 or so gallons (maybe someone can help me figure this out. It's 60" long and 18" wide and 18" tall.) - so I know this is my first issue. I have heard anything between 125 and 300 gal necessary for rays. My plan was to upgrade in about 6-9 months to around 200gal. Mostly I want to prove I can keep them alive before I go crazy on a huge setup. Do you guys think 1-2 rays would be ok for 6-9 months in this tank?
2. I have a 35 gal sump. This will contain all of my live rock as well as pump and protein skimmer. Is this big enough?
3. Mag 7 700 pump. For moving my waters...
4. Protein Skimmer - Well I dont have that yet so I am looking for suggestions on it. (and yes I know I need this before the fishes... at least I think I need this before the fish... yes?)
5. CaribSea Aragamax Sugar-Sized Sand - 60lbs of it... I also have some live sand to put with it. I chose this sand because I wanted a soft sand for the rays. Does anyone think this is too coarse? Also I may need another bag or 2 I would like about an inch and a half covering the bottom of the tank.
6. Salt and lots of it for making my water (I forget the brand right now, but its not table salt... it is marine salt whatever that means).
7. Amquel plus - to keep all my levels good.
8. Lights... I dont have any yet. Open to suggestions, but power costs are not an issue and no corals just the stingrays and/or maybe 1 small shark. I dont have tons of money, but I do want to do this right.
9. Heater/Chiller - I dont have one of these and I am being told I dont need one since the tank will be in a room that is ALWAYS kept between 74-78. However Ill keep an eye on it just to be sure.

Ok. So is there anything else that I am missing?

The way I understand/remember the steps are pretty much:
1. Get the equipment set up.
2. Put the water in.
3. Wait... once you cant wait any longer double that time. Ive normally done 4 weeks, but let me know if thats too short.
4. Get some cheap fish (that will ultimately last longer than anything else you put in the tank).
5. Get a cleaning crew... suggestions for this???
6. Once everything has been stable for a few weeks then buy the fish I actually want (stingrays in my case... one at a time)

Also I do have a very experienced reef tank guy helping me do all this who has given me tons of suggestions. And he will be helping me make sure my water is perfect. The only unfortunate part is that he has never done rays/sharks. So I am really needing advice from people who do/have. I know most people say they are very difficult but I have a lot of time and patience so hopefully I will not screw up too bad. I would post pictures but my tank isnt set up yet so I will post when it is. I am just looking for advice right now.

Also I should really specify. I may go with stingrays, but the ones I wanted are technically Brazilian Electric Rays (Narcine brasiliensis) or Lesser Electric Rays. They supposedly require less space and are the rays that originally got me wanting to do a ray tank...

Thanks in advance and I hope my book of a post hasnt scared all of you off...

-Ben

 

[Kin pla]

MMm, first this is a icun Redlisted animal.... Secondly a 80 gallon tank isn't gonna work, say I stuck you in a 3x3 meter box for the rest of your life... You get the picture, you are talking about an animal the could possibly grow to 18 inches, ray/shark tanks are best round w no sharp angles and huge volume,w adequate filtration if you expect them to live more than a few months. I would seriously re evaluate your commitment to a rare and delicate animal,...
Secondly this is a animal that has a self defense mechanism.. How in gods name do you plan on Maintaining the tank with the threat of being electrocuted, following that thought process you mention keeping a shark with said ray, I hope you are familiar with electroreception, and the disaster that a combination of the two would cause... Not could but would 100 percent.
I hate to flame you but this is cruel and a terribly irresponsible idea, I'm all for keeping unique and potentially dangerous marine life, if one knows what they are doing

 

[hinesassociates]

Kin - First off thanks for the response. I really appreciate you taking the time to try to help. I was not aware that they were redlisted. Thats not to say I havnt done research on them, but I didnt specifically check that. Thanks for the heads up there. As far as the size goes this is very temporary. From what I have read the perticular rays (both stingray and elec ray) start out about 4" round and grow about 1-3 " per year depending on food. Please do not take this to mean that I know it for a fact, only that I read that. I am planning on going to 200-300 gal range in bout 6 months if I can keep them alive for that long. I have heard that the Elec rays are much smaller than the stingrays and can be kept in anything bigger than 65 gal. Once again thats only what I have heard not experienced. The only one thing I will say is that I have had one in the past for about 2 months (I ended up taking it back to the store with some other fish when I moved and had to get rid of my tank). However this was in my 30gal with about 7 other fish. (which I now understand is cruel and stupid) However I never noticed any issues with the electricity. It unfortunately didnt eat a lot and I dont think it was in good condition when I returned it but it didnt seem to bother my other fish and even when attempting to hand feed it I didnt have any issues with it shocking me. Not that I dont think it could have... Once again I do appreciate your help and opinions on this. There is a reason why I am on here looking for advice 5-6 months before purchasing. I dont want to be irresponsible. Also I am not set on elec rays. I may end up getting a small stingray instead. Would this be your suggestion?

Also I do realize that you are most likely trying to discourage me from doing a ray tank. I may end up not doing one, but that would mean me selling my stuff as that is the whole purpose for my tank. And while I may not be very experienced I am doing this project with a guy that is (just not with rays). How would I or he get experience with them without ever starting? That was a genuine question... I would like to become experienced with ray and shark tanks. That is why I am here to gain your expert advice.

 

[hinesassociates]

Sorry... double post... stupid internet...

 

[clowntriggerfis]

I would get the 200 first a 80 is WAY to small. If you are not sucefull there is many other stocking options for a 200. rays need more sand because they will burrow.

 

[hinesassociates]

I would get the 200 first a 80 is WAY to small. If you are not sucefull there is many other stocking options for a 200. rays need more sand because they will burrow.

How thick of sand layer do you think I should have?

 

[clowntriggerfis]

Not 100% sure but probibly 3-5in.

 

[jjk_reef00]

What are the dimensions of the 200?
You will not be able to have very much rock (if any) with a ray in a 200.
IMO you are better off trying to get an 8' x 30" x24" (LWH).
Rays swim a lot and need a lot of space.

 

[alprazo]

There is nothing cheap about keeping rays. They are long lived so make sure that this is a passion and not an interest. They are much more difficult to find a home for than your lion, trigger or angel fish if you get bored.

They do much better in a round tub vs rectangular tank. The 300 gal stock tank from tractor supply is a good starting point.

Purchase a bead or sand filter. The aqua ultraviolet ultima II 1000 works well.

You will need at least a reef flo super dart or goby to run the filter

Add a 500 gal rated quality skimmer. These animals produce a lot of waste.

Fine sugar sand 3-4 inches

Some live rock.

Lots of extra salt to make water changes

Heater

Do not invest money in lighting. Anything from Lowes or homedepot will do.

cycle.

A Cortez ray is a good started. I also like the blue spotted rays (Dasyatis kuhlii) but do not start with the ribbon tail (Taeniura lymma)




I also rec a way to deal with nitrates too, and water changes get expensive.

If you decide to pursue this, I wish you good luck and fortune with it.

 

[helicoprion]

Famous first and last words in the shark and ray hobby are "I'm going to start with [way too small tank), and then upgrade to a [barely adequate tank] in six months". Not a personal jab at you by any stretch, but the classifieds on shark boards are covered with tortchured horn and nurse sharks, among others that some how got too big (bizarre, huh?!?).

You're clearly passionate about this, so start off with a ton of research, then build a system that can house these incredible animals for life. I promise it will save you stress and heartbreak later on.

 

[hinesassociates]

clowntriggerfis - Thanks Ill do 3-4".

jjk_reef00 - Not sure of the dimensions as I have changed my mind of that 10 or 12 times already. My stand is 72" long and can accommodate about 48" wide. I would Love to get one that was 72"X48"X18" (LWH). I think thats somewhere in the 250-275 range. From a lot of what Ive heard height is the least important with rays... Also the live rock will all be in the sump.

alprazo - Thanks for all the specific info. This is going to be the center point of a room (eventually) so I would rather not get a bin. Though the price seems right... Ill look into those when I upgrade.

 

[hinesassociates]

Famous first and last words in the shark and ray hobby are "I'm going to start with [way too small tank), and then upgrade to a [barely adequate tank] in six months". Not a personal jab at you by any stretch, but the classifieds on shark boards are covered with tortchured horn and nurse sharks, among others that some how got too big (bizarre, huh?!?).

You're clearly passionate about this, so start off with a ton of research, then build a system that can house these incredible animals for life. I promise it will save you stress and heartbreak later on.

Thanks for being up front... and I do appreciate the advice. My problem is just not wanting to spend 1000's of dollars on a setup and then decide that they are too difficult to keep even with that. Not that the money is a huge deal just that I have seen a lot of people go that route as well. They get really excited and buy everything imaginable and then decide that they dont like dealing with it or cant keep stuff alive and the stuff all ends up for sale or wasted. Though I do believe you that those are famous last words. Hopefully I will end up proof that they dont have to be... however those may be my famous last words...