Real or False Purple Monster???

[manderx]

i agree it's getting out of hand and abused for greedy purposes. that's exactly why i feel strongly enough to post in these threads, to make sure that people understand that a given name like these are to be used only for that exact coral, not anything that happens to look like it on a given day. and only buy named corals from sources you can trust.

but, don't blame tyree, it's the people downstream of him that are the greedy buggers. he started the whole thing by simply offering frags of corals he handpicked from nice tanks all over the country. a wonderful idea. and he didn't realy charge that much for them. first time i saw his page with PM on it, it was $75 for a decent grown-out frag (not the 1/2" nubs most people sold for twice that even back then). and back then, that was pretty normal for any colored acro frag, and at worst only twice as much as pretty much any frag. one cool frag for the price of 2 'regular' frags, not a bad deal at all. and the waiting lists aren't quite as silly as they seem. there is *no* commitment or deposit. you can put your name on them completely on a whim, then decide when your turn is up if you still want it. yeah, i laughed at the 2 year wait back then. but if i had signed up for a PM back then, i would have gotten it long ago.

if steve was 1/10th as greedy as people try to make him out as, he would raise the prices until there was only a 2 month waiting list on them.

 

[Fliger]

I think the piece is beautiful no matter what you got! I have seen several "Fake PM's" at LFS and online and I have one of the Reefer Madness ones. I did find one that I thought was better than others at an LFS I'd seen so I bought it. I have had PM before and I have to be honest - it really is the best when colored up. Still, even among the copies there are some that are better than others.

Here's my copy (on the left, bad pic - its REALLY purple)

 

[Bebo77]

ok here is a real PM

and yours

nice but not the pm...

 

[sfsuphysics]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7833056#post7833056 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by manderx
the official story is that it was handpicked out of a large shipment of several thousand corals.

Early 90s... did they have brightly colored SPS in the numbers that they do now? Although now it's not much different, but that's a whole other topic of those who handpick stuff

 

[Bigmike]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7833300#post7833300 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Neptune777
I don't think there is any validity to the whole lineage arguement.....no way to truly trace them back to the original owner/founder after it gets shared with lots and lots of people. Not to mention that many just tack on the "Tyree" or "PM" name if it just looks like the original........how in the world can you confirm or deny it's origin at that point? Not like these things come with pedigree papers like dogs and cats.......hey.....now that might be a good way to control the usage of these "Lineage" coral names!

haha That is not a good argument at all, you think just because a dog or cat has papers it means they come from that lineage? I know of more than a few cases in which fraudulant papers were presented for the specific reason to raise a dog or cat's price tag. haha its the same exact deal with coral. Bottom line is the only way you can "know" where things come from, is if you trust the source from which they come, that's the best we can do as consumers.

And if you all think that people buy these name brand corals strictly for their names sake, I think you need to get some of them and see their true beauty. A lot of these corals are way above the average colored acro.

 

[turtlespd]

Honestly if you gotta ask they it most likley isnt!

 

[crypticghost]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7834708#post7834708 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by turtlespd
Honestly if you gotta ask they it most likley isnt!

That is the most ignorant response ever! At least make a futile attempt to quantify that statement. Someone bought something at a store (the person obvisouly liked it) and wondered if it was something, in this case a PM. I bought an encrusting monti...I did not know for sure if it was a copps monti, turns out it was...and I asked so it must not be right?
Just because a store does not sell it has a LE and puts a decent price on it and not expect you to give up your kidney for a frag, does not mean it is not a LE.
lets be helpful in here. .

 

[crypticghost]

double post, sorry

 

[Bigmike]

That is the most ignorant response ever! At least make a futile attempt to quantify that statement. Someone bought something at a store (the person obvisouly liked it) and wondered if it was something, in this case a PM. I bought an encrusting monti...I did not know for sure if it was a copps monti, turns out it was...and I asked so it must not be right?
Just because a store does not sell it has a LE and puts a decent price on it and not expect you to give up your kidney for a frag, does not mean it is not a LE.
lets be helpful in here. . [/QUOTE]

haha I see this thread going in the wrong direction now. Turtlespd's statement is most definately true. In "most cases" people do not just happen to come by a frag of PM in a LFS, especially for 35 bucks or whatever he paid for it.

Regaurdless of it being a nice coral or it happens to look like something. If there is a 6 year waiting list for a frag do you think a reefer is going to just say, "You know, I think Im going to sell a frag of my coveted Purple Monster to my LFS for 20 bucks, just because I'm feeling generous." And then, a fish store manager is going to say to himself, "You know, I just got this frag of Purple Monster for 20 bucks, I should only charge 35 dollars for it because Im a local fish store and dont really want to make any money on this great frag." It Could happen, but most likely not.

 

[crypticghost]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7834903#post7834903 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Bigmike
That is the most ignorant response ever! At least make a futile attempt to quantify that statement. Someone bought something at a store (the person obvisouly liked it) and wondered if it was something, in this case a PM. I bought an encrusting monti...I did not know for sure if it was a copps monti, turns out it was...and I asked so it must not be right?
Just because a store does not sell it has a LE and puts a decent price on it and not expect you to give up your kidney for a frag, does not mean it is not a LE.
lets be helpful in here. .

haha I see this thread going in the wrong direction now. Turtlespd's statement is most definately true. In "most cases" people do not just happen to come by a frag of PM in a LFS, especially for 35 bucks or whatever he paid for it.

Regaurdless of it being a nice coral or it happens to look like something. If there is a 6 year waiting list for a frag do you think a reefer is going to just say, "You know, I think Im going to sell a frag of my coveted Purple Monster to my LFS for 20 bucks, just because I'm feeling generous." It Could happen, but most likely not. [/QUOTE]

I am willing to bet I could find a coral that is not a PM and sell it to anybody as a PM...lighting affects how they look, water params, etc...Like I said I ran across a copps monti for really, really cheap.... Your statement is just as bad but at least you gave a reason for you answer... Its not like these are cars and you bought a toyota unsure if it was a toyota or not. I have another "rare" frag that i picked up, its in the SPS rare thread, that I had no idea what it was but apparently they are charging close to 40-60 a frag, but it must not be it, cause I am not on a waiting list, right?

 

[Bigmike]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7834935#post7834935 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by crypticghost

I am willing to bet I could find a coral that is not a PM and sell it to anybody as a PM...lighting affects how they look, water params, etc...Like I said I ran across a copps monti for really, really cheap.... Your statement is just as bad but at least you gave a reason for you answer... Its not like these are cars and you bought a toyota unsure if it was a toyota or not. I have another "rare" frag that i picked up, its in the SPS rare thread, that I had no idea what it was but apparently they are charging close to 40-60 a frag, but it must not be it, cause I am not on a waiting list, right?

Im not going to argue with you because youre arguing a different point all together. Yes lighting does change the color amoung many other varients. Doesnt change the fact that if you want something with a proven track record with color and uniqueness, You're either going to have to pay top dollar or have a once in a lifetime score at a local fish store.

There is a reason that there are so many people that want these corals, its because they have proven themselves to be vauble. If you want to take a chance with some coral that you think might color up to be something great, go ahead, thats not we are discussing here.

 

[crypticghost]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7834991#post7834991 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Bigmike
Im not going to argue with you because youre arguing a different point all together. Yes lighting does change the color amoung many other varients. Doesnt change the fact that if you want something with a proven track record with color and uniqueness, You're either going to have to pay top dollar or have a once in a lifetime score at a local fish store.

There is a reason that there are so many people that want these corals, its because they have proven themselves to be vauble. If you want to take a chance with some coral that you think might color up to be something great, go ahead, thats not we are discussing here.

I am not talking about something coloring up at all... my monti I bought is the same color as the ones that go for huge top dollars...BUt i did not know what it was...I could call anything I wanted a purple monster... I am willing to bet that I could find a completely different colony then tyree's PM and you would not be able to tell the difference between them. My main reason for posting to the other person is because it was rude and uncalled for, and I hate people like that. It would have been alot easier for him to say nothing at all, or gone the route of...it does not look like it from the picture and if you do not know for sure, then it is probably not one. But whatever... you people go ahead and spend all the money you want on a coral that is overly hyped.

 

[1105]

Man this has taken a turn for the worse. Like I said before, I don't care if it is a "true" PM or not, I would just like to know the species of the coral so when I post a picture or someone asks me what it is I can say it's a maryae or granulosa.

I don't really see how one colony of coral picked out by Tyree can be the only one known in existance. I guess the difference between a granulosa tyree picked out and one that could have been a frag off of the same colony out in the wild is he touched it??? So if thats true, that the PM is the one he picked out, all of the other granulosas out in the wild are "fake" eventhough they could have been off of the same colony?

Like I allready said, it does not matter to me if it's a real or fake PM, for the price I couldn't pass it up. The frag is about 3" tall. I don't want this thread to continue arguing how to tell if one is real or not.

To me, besides the color difference, the coral looks more like a granulosa than a maryae. I just want to get a positive ID on this coral.

 

[easttn]

This whole thread irks me. Tyree Smyree. He jaunts around the states with pics or leads to amazing colored and or shaped corals because he is an awesome salesman. He buys frags from dealers, store owners, and hobbyist that got lucky or are in the loop.

Everyday hundreds of corals arrive in LA (and other places), the distributor's warehouse minion privately look at the haul and contact some of his high $$$ customers or friends. Every single coral that is/has/or will become a collectors edition piece is obtained through these distributors - scum.

There are minute differences in pieces sure, but that does not equate to the outrageous prices that are being demanded because it is a nuke the gay whales for Jesus blue stag from Bogart.

Get over yourselves. Promote the trading of these pieces, the reefs are diminishing, our own greed will most likely obliterate a hard to find Maryae if you don't.

I'd post prices so everyone could see the pillaging that occurs after middlemen grab select pieces from the 106th street cornucopia just outside LAX, but I'd most likely get punished. Take my word for it a $35 PM or sunset was cheap originally. It just takes someone with a keen eye, good connections, and an experienced runner to see it.

BTW, Tyree you should kiss the owner of a recent tank crash victim's butt if you want to continue your tax on the stupid.

Sorry all, had to vent.

Just an opinion.

 

[crypticghost]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7835310#post7835310 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by 1105
Man this has taken a turn for the worse. Like I said before, I don't care if it is a "true" PM or not, I would just like to know the species of the coral so when I post a picture or someone asks me what it is I can say it's a maryae or granulosa.

I don't really see how one colony of coral picked out by Tyree can be the only one known in existance. I guess the difference between a granulosa tyree picked out and one that could have been a frag off of the same colony out in the wild is he touched it??? So if thats true, that the PM is the one he picked out, all of the other granulosas out in the wild are "fake" eventhough they could have been off of the same colony?

Like I allready said, it does not matter to me if it's a real or fake PM, for the price I couldn't pass it up. The frag is about 3" tall. I don't want this thread to continue arguing how to tell if one is real or not.

To me, besides the color difference, the coral looks more like a granulosa than a maryae. I just want to get a positive ID on this coral.

That is my point...Big mike sent me a very cute PM giving me lessons I can live by...and this is what I just explained to him in my PM...I hope you got your ID, its a very pretty piece. Just got to bring it back on topic.

 

[GreshamH]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7835345#post7835345 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by easttn
This whole thread irks me. Tyree Smyree. He jaunts around the states with pics or leads to amazing colored and or shaped corals because he is an awesome salesman. He buys frags from dealers, store owners, and hobbyist that got lucky or are in the loop.

Everyday hundreds of corals arrive in LA (and other places), the distributor's warehouse minion privately look at the haul and contact some of his high $$$ customers or friends. Every single coral that is/has/or will become a collectors edition piece is obtained through these distributors - scum.

There are minute differences in pieces sure, but that does not equate to the outrageous prices that are being demanded because it is a nuke the gay whales for Jesus blue stag from Bogart.

Get over yourselves. Promote the trading of these pieces, the reefs are diminishing, our own greed will most likely obliterate a hard to find Maryae if you don't.

I'd post prices so everyone could see the pillaging that occurs after middlemen grab select pieces from the 106th street cornucopia just outside LAX, but I'd most likely get punished. Take my word for it a $35 PM or sunset was cheap originally. It just takes someone with a keen eye, good connections, and an experienced runner to see it.

BTW, Tyree you should kiss the owner of a recent tank crash victim's butt if you want to continue your tax on the stupid.

Sorry all, had to vent.

Just an opinion.

104th St. :lol: 106th would land you a few blocks from the action.

Seemed like Steve and Hugo were quite friendly at the BACFM, I dunno bout the need for "butt kissing" there Charles

 

[manderx]

Early 90s... did they have brightly colored SPS in the numbers that they do now?

not in the numbers, but i remember corals and clams especially (i used to have a tiny blood red squammie- before we knew small clams needed phyto) being nicer back then in general. fewer collection regulations, more areas open to collection, and things hadn't been picked over yet. so divers were only taking the truely amazing pieces rather than 'clearcutting' everything that has the slightest color.

 

[brandon0350]

that is an a. mayrae. i got a identical looking one only alittle bigger from a friend that got it as a false pm. it was purple until i moved it higher in the tank. it then turned to a really cool bright mint green and stayed that way until i broke down my tank

 

[thebicyclecafe]

This whole thread irks me. Tyree Smyree. He jaunts around the states with pics or leads to amazing colored and or shaped corals because he is an awesome salesman. He buys frags from dealers, store owners, and hobbyist that got lucky or are in the loop.

I agree that the prices for some of the fragments are thrown way out of proportion because of the "hype" that is generated by the limited edition system. However, I believe that Steve is doing so much for reefkeeping by promoting aquacultured and farmed corals.

And whether it is an LE fragment or not, the whole concept and model of "brand name, desirable corals" created by Steve has greatly augmented the demand and desirability of cultured corals.
To get people to buy aquacultured you have to encourage them with trendy names and very unique characteristics, especially when they are more expensive than wild caught.
It is difficult taking the time to identify, culture, and market such specimens.
If it were just a matter of going to a wholesaler, picking out a wild colony of some exotic acropora, fragging it out, making it a limited edition, then that would be too easy to emulate.
It is very different and takes talent to see some potential, then have the patience and creativity to experiment with corals, then grow them out to exotic specimens that are 100% aquacultured.
To me this is more important than the price of a fragment.
It is a very time consuming and labor intensive process, therefore the prices do reflect that effort. It is good knowing that this is a step towards the right direction.
Think about how often the phrases "LE something something" or "AE something something" are mentioned. Everytime this takes place, the demand and interest in farmed corals is boosted up a notch. Many large vendors and individual coral farmers choose to sell "Tyree corals" because of the demand for these specimens, which is placing aquacultured corals into people's aquariums. Whether you like the price or not, this is a positive trend and I cannot imagine how the market for aquacultured corals would be impacted if there weren't a demand for certain rare and exotic "limited edition" corals.
Tyree is doing a great deal for this hobby, aquaculture/farmed coral industry, and the environment, and he and those that farm these corals definitely deserve to be compensated for the work they puts into that.

 

[tacocat]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7837280#post7837280 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by GreshamH
104th St. :lol: 106th would land you a few blocks from the action.

Seemed like Steve and Hugo were quite friendly at the BACFM, I dunno bout the need for "butt kissing" there Charles

I'm glad you said something. It's kind of interesting how we Californians (who have been to the wholesalers or have met the aforementioned farmers) have a completely different impression on this subject.