Recent KH, Mag and Cal dosing resluted in dead loss!

[Reefapalooza]

I'm not new to the hobby and keep a close eye on my water chemistry. I have a 60 gal reef with a 15 gal sump. Running a Eshopps Snow Cone skimmer and a media reactor with Nitrate/Phosphate pearls in the sump. Here are my water values:

1.026 sg
77 temp
0 phosphate
<10 nitrate
1350 mag
9 KH
420 Cal
8.5 PH

Coral:
Bubble coral, Hammer coral, purple and green mushrooms, candy cane frag, misc acropora frags, misc zoanthids, green trachyphyllia, RBTA.

Critters:
Maroon clown (hosted with RBTA), kole tang, coral beauty, cleaner shrimp, sand sifting goby, misc snails and a few hermit crabs.

Here's my issue - I recently (two days ago) started using the BRS (Bulk Reef Supply) 2-part dosing system for KH, Mag and Cal. My levels had gotten a bit low prior to using the new system and I used the BRS solutions to bring the levels back up:

Mag - from 1260 to 1350
KH - from 7 to 9
Cal - Stayed at 420

After one day, I lost my coral beauty. After 2 days I lost my Kole tang.

Not sure what's up. Has anyone heard of loosing fish after bringing water chemistry levels to where they should be? I followed the instructions to the letter. I even brought the KH from 7 to 9 over two days to minimize the impact on PH.

My corals are doing great but I'm loosing fish like crazy - otherwise very healthy fish! Anyone?

 

[sdch1000]

When you say your levels were a "bit" low, maybe you went too much? But more importantly too fast? Maybe needed to be more gradual with the chemistry change over a week or more.

I'm not new to the hobby and keep a close eye on my water chemistry. I have a 60 gal reef with a 15 gal sump. Running a Eshopps Snow Cone skimmer and a media reactor with Nitrate/Phosphate pearls in the sump. Here are my water values:

1.026 sg
77 temp
0 phosphate
<10 nitrate
1350 mag
9 KH
420 Cal
8.5 PH

Coral:
Bubble coral, Hammer coral, purple and green mushrooms, candy cane frag, misc acropora frags, misc zoanthids, green trachyphyllia, RBTA.

Critters:
Maroon clown (hosted with RBTA), kole tang, coral beauty, cleaner shrimp, sand sifting goby, misc snails and a few hermit crabs.

Here's my issue - I recently (two days ago) started using the BRS (Bulk Reef Supply) 2-part dosing system for KH, Mag and Cal. My levels had gotten a bit low prior to using the new system and I used the BRS solutions to bring the levels back up:

Mag - from 1260 to 1350
KH - from 7 to 9
Cal - Stayed at 420

After one day, I lost my coral beauty. After 2 days I lost my Kole tang.

Not sure what's up. Has anyone heard of loosing fish after bringing water chemistry levels to where they should be? I followed the instructions to the letter. I even brought the KH from 7 to 9 over two days to minimize the impact on PH.

My corals are doing great but I'm loosing fish like crazy - otherwise very healthy fish! Anyone?

 

[outssider]

I don't think a move between 7 and 9 dkh in a 2 day span is the problem, I'd look elsewhere

 

[oldbones]

I don't think a move between 7 and 9 dkh in a 2 day span is the problem, I'd look elsewhere

Agreed. Maybe enough to irritate your corals, but not something that would kill your fish. Something else is going on.

What were the symptoms? Any markings or discoloration on the fish? How are the other fish acting and looking? Corals happy or not?

 

[oldbones]

Also, very interested in helping you find your problem, I just opened a big box from BRS with my 2-Part kit!!! (switching from Red Sea due to cost)

 

[sdch1000]

The first fish died after only 1 day. Maybe coincidence, but to me that sounds like the chemistry changed too quickly. IMO if dkh went from 7-9 in one day, that's a pretty fast move.

Edit: I see the dkh move was over 2 days. But I still believe that could be the problem, or at least contributed to it. Maybe the fish had a disease already, and the change just magnified the effect.

Agreed. Maybe enough to irritate your corals, but not something that would kill your fish. Something else is going on.

What were the symptoms? Any markings or discoloration on the fish? How are the other fish acting and looking? Corals happy or not?

 

[Reefapalooza]

Thanks to everyone for their input. The fish were very healthy prior to the addition of BRS stuff. No white spots or anything obvious and they were eating find. Odd that all of the other fish are doing just fine and my corals are all very happy.

 

[bertoni]

That change in dKH should be fine for fish, even if dosed all at once, in my experience. My soft coral tank went from 7 dKH to 10 or 11 in one shot every morning for years. In theory, the problem might be some sort of contaminant in the supplements, but the timing might be coincidental. Were there any other changes at the same time?

 

[Reefapalooza]

That change in dKH should be fine for fish, even if dosed all at once, in my experience. My soft coral tank went from 7 dKH to 10 or 11 in one shot every morning for years. In theory, the problem might be some sort of contaminant in the supplements, but the timing might be coincidental. Were there any other changes at the same time?

No other changes were done. The only thing different was the addition of the BRS 2 part system.

Update - Corals are still doing great and no other fish are dying. dKH dropped to 8.4 in 24 hrs. Cal and Mag stayed the same (420 and 1350).

Question re Calcuim - The BRS 2-part system suggests dosing equal amounts of Calcium and Alk each day based on their calculator. I had a drop in dKH from 9 to 8.4 and the calculator gave me the amount of Alk solution to use in ounces and ml. Thing is, my Calcium stayed the same at 420. If I followed the instructions I would have dosed both Alk and Cal which would have brought my Alk up to 9 (good) but would bring my Calcium above 420. I'm wondering why my tank is not consuming Calcium at the rate anticipated based on the Alk needs of the tank. I'll call BRS and see what they have to say.

 

[sixpackgarage]

so you dosed calcium, but there was no change in the value? If that's the case, then the calcium solution is suspect.

 

[Reefapalooza]

so you dosed calcium, but there was no change in the value? If that's the case, then the calcium solution is suspect.

No. I tested 24 hours after the initial test to determine the daily requirement of Alk and Cal. The Alk had dropped but the Cal did not. So, if I do what BRS suggests and dose equal amounts of their Cal and Alk solutions, my Cal will go too high eventually. I guess my question is - why is my tank consuming zero Cal in a 24 hour period? Is that odd?

 

[oldbones]

That's not odd, kinda normal in fact.

Look at the calculator, if you want to raise your Cal say 50ppm, it takes quite a large dose.

30ml of Alk does a lot more than 30ml of Cal.

 

[aredhead]

Reffa, I am kind of agreeing that something else happened or you added to fast and it doused your fish.

I was using Kalkwasser and was tired of my ATO plugging up and precipitation. I decided to use 2 Part. I was hand dosing at first and I was pushing the limits to get my numbers up. My fish were bullet proof, although I did start to see some bleaching of some frags. I have since started dosing with a dosing pump. It is a much kinder way to do things. I am using almost double the alk than calc. Alk is around 50ml and Calc is around 30ml in a 24 hour period. Mag is usually pretty high always. My numbers are staying at 1400 Mag, Alk is 4.2 and Calc is 420. I try to use MY rule of 4. Mag 1400, Alk 4.0-4.4 and Calc 400-440. I have only been in this for a few years and this is only my second tank so take it for what its worth.

 

[Reefapalooza]

That's not odd, kinda normal in fact.

Look at the calculator, if you want to raise your Cal say 50ppm, it takes quite a large dose.

30ml of Alk does a lot more than 30ml of Cal.

I get that. My question remains though:

BRS wants me to dose equal amounts of Cal and Alk every day. I have a value for Alk because I experienced a drop over a 24 hour period. My Cal did not drop however. So, if I dose equal amounts of Alk and Cal, I'm overdosing Cal. Right?

 

[oldbones]

The 'thumb rule' of dosing equal parts A&B is just that. Your tank may need a bigger ALK dose than Calcium dose, I know mine does. I dose 36ml Alk and 12ml Cal per day, and levels are pretty steady. My tank is 3 months old, but is already nearly full with SPS frags and a Crocea Clam, also starting to grow coralline like crazy.

I'm still new to the hobby, but I am starting to think that when a tank is young, it uses ALK at a higher rate than Calcium, but once things mature and your corals really get growing, you'll start having to increase your Calcium dose to keep up.

 

[Reefapalooza]

Update - just spoke with BRS. They suggested taking a reading over a week (7 days). Determine the weekly drop of Cal and Alk and then divide by 7 to get the daily dose. Makes sense.

 

[outssider]

If you wait a week on the alk it may go too low...be carful !! ...reefs use alk much faster than calcium

 

[bertoni]

Update - just spoke with BRS. They suggested taking a reading over a week (7 days). Determine the weekly drop of Cal and Alk and then divide by 7 to get the daily dose.

That would work only in a tank with a very low consumption rate. As the alkalinity level drops, calcification drops, leading to lower consumption. Calcification generally will stop somewhere basically entirely below 6 dKH or so.