Red Sea NO3:POX4X Real Time Review.

[JaysLittleOcean]

My Red Sea Algae Management program arrived today and I was eager to get things setup. I read through the manual and got my game plan together. According to the directions. I would need to add 3 ml of the NO3O4X supplement for every 25 gallons. Since my aquarium is 45 gallons I figured a safe bet to start with would be 5 ml per day. I'm using my Jabeo 4 channel doser with 4 additional channels on the slave unit in order to dose 5 separate 1 ml doses every 4.5 hours per day. I also read on the instructions that it is recommended no to use in conjunction with phosphate removing media. So luckily enough my Innovate Marine Mini-Max reactor containing the AquaMaxx Granular Ferric Oxide was easy to remove by just pulling the reaction chamber out of the water. So now we wait until Saturday after my water change to see what my nitrate and phosphate levels looks like for the first week. I have also purchased the Red Sea Algae Management Pro Test Kit to use in conjunction for monitoring. Crossing my fingers for good results.

 

[JaysLittleOcean]

The aquarium hold approximately 45 gallons of water. With displacement for the live sand and live rock I have dropped that number down a bit further. According to the Red Sea NO3O4X supplement instructions for SPS aquariums within the first week I should be adding approximately 3 ml of solutions for every 25 gallons of saltwater. So I have calculated that 5 ml per day should be about accurate for my aquarium. I have spread the dosage out as stated every 4.5 hours.

It has been approximately 24 hours since I first started administering the dosage and my first observations are as follows. I have noticed that I am experiencing Slow Tissue Necrosis on one of my corals. While most of my corals have degraded in the vibrance of their pigmentation I am not total convinced that this is due entirely to the dosing. But I did also notice that my pH levels has been suppressed since I started dosing according to the graph below from my Neptune Systems Apex Controller's pH monitoring Probe.

 

[Nanofreak79]

Where did you get the tube holder? Nice job having it on a pump. Following.

 

[jason2459]

What are your nitrate and phosphate levels at? I don't think I saw those. I would suggest keeping an eye on the phosphate levels if the GFO was keeping those levels down. If they raise up I would put the GFO back online until you get to a good maintenance dosing level. There's nothing in NO3PO4X that would require you to remove GFO.

Carbon dosing with Vodka/Vinegar (what's being utilized here) will reduce pH temporarily as long as it's not over dosed it should be ok. It is possible to go to fast to soon.

A couple good sources to read up on carbon dosing
Vodka
http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2008-08/nftt/index.php

Vinegar
http://reefkeeping.com/joomla/index...ar-dosing-methodology-for-the-marine-aquarium

And on the combination of the two that's in RedSea
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2408985&page=11

 

[Buzz1329]

What are your nitrate and phosphate levels at? I don't think I saw those. I would suggest keeping an eye on the phosphate levels if the GFO was keeping those levels down. If they raise up I would put the GFO back online until you get to a good maintenance dosing level. There's nothing in NO3PO4X that would require you to remove GFO.

Carbon dosing with Vodka/Vinegar (what's being utilized here) will reduce pH temporarily as long as it's not over dosed it should be ok. It is possible to go to fast to soon.

A couple good sources to read up on carbon dosing
Vodka
http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2008-08/nftt/index.php

Vinegar
http://reefkeeping.com/joomla/index...ar-dosing-methodology-for-the-marine-aquarium

And on the combination of the two that's in RedSea
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2408985&page=11

Thanks for all the excellent info.

Also thanks for setting me straight on GFO. NOPOX brochure said not to use sulfur-based NO3/PO4 removers, and I for some reason I misread this to include GFO. D'oh!

Mike

 

[jason2459]

A sulfur denitrator would be counter productive. The bacteria will consume quite a bit more nitrates then phosphates. I wouldn't want anything else competing that aggressively with the bacteria for one of the main nutrients it needs. Phosphates being much lower in the C:N: P ratio would most likely need the help of a PO4 consumer like GFO until its at a low enough level and carbon dosing is at a maintanence level and can keep it lowered.

 

[vitodog]

Where did you get the tube holder? Nice job having it on a pump. Following.

I would also like to know where you purchased the tube holder. Thank you.

 

[homer1475]

I've been dosing NoPox also to keep nitrates in check. First thing first, according to red sea(I emailed them) your going to want to keep it in a low light container(I use the same container it came in with a hole drilled in the lid for a dosing line). I used the exact same Ball jars as you are and noticed after a couple days the nopox got real cloudy.

I have also found that one large dose a day did better then several smaller dose's. I'm pretty sure I way over feed since I'm still at 3ml a day(29G biocube) and my nitrates are steady at 4ppm. If I drop the dosing to their recommended levels, my nitrates go right back up. I originally did the same as you with taking GFO offline, which caused an imbalance in my PO4 and NO3(PO4 = .16, NO3 = 32) which caused some heavy cynao outbreaks. Put the GFO back online and my PO4 and NO3 are back in check (NO3 = 4ppm, PO4 = .04) and cyano disappeared.

One thing I have noticed is a huge bacterial bloom in my pumps and reactor lines. Nothing in the tank itself, but it is in everything that stays static.

 

[JaysLittleOcean]

Where did you get the tube holder? Nice job having it on a pump. Following.

Thank you. The tube holder was purchased on Amazon.com. It is listed as a Kamoer Tube Holder Manifold for $19.99 with Prime Shipping if you are an Amazon Prime Member.

 

[JaysLittleOcean]

Red Sea Fish Algae Management Program.

Red Sea Fish Algae Management Program.

So I went through my normal weekly maintenance routing of doing a 4 gallon water change and then testing all levels the after 24 hours. Well I stopped dosing with NO3O4X after the second day. Apparently that was too strong of a dose and test results with both Salifert and Red Sea Fish test kits showed that I completely stripped the water all detectable Nitrates. Further test shows that my phosphate levels are currently at 0.8 ppm. So I put my GFO reactor back online and gave the tank the weekend to recover as the bacterial bloom created such a cloudy mess in the aquarium. But as of yesterday evening the cloudiness has disappeared, my pH levels are returning to normal and I am slowly configuring my doser to accommodate an acclimated growth. The Hair Algae looks bad still but not as vibrant as it was a few days ago. So the product work and is actually extremely powerful. So I will give it until Wednesday before I test again to view results and make small adjustments as normal.

 

[ReefCowboy]

I noticed you dont have holes on the container covers, is the tubbing hole allowing for air to go in as liquid comes out? Ive done lots of research on Nopox, and started dosing yesterday on my 57 gal. My tank bounces around 10ppm nitrates, so i started the first day with 2ml and will go up to 4mls today(i have 50 gals total). I find the issues based on users of this stuff come from the startng doses ramping quickly or being larger than needed. Maybe you should have started with 2mls per 25 gals?

 

[ReefCowboy]

I've been dosing NoPox also to keep nitrates in check. First thing first, according to red sea(I emailed them) your going to want to keep it in a low light container(I use the same container it came in with a hole drilled in the lid for a dosing line). I used the exact same Ball jars as you are and noticed after a couple days the nopox got real cloudy.

I have also found that one large dose a day did better then several smaller dose's. I'm pretty sure I way over feed since I'm still at 3ml a day(29G biocube) and my nitrates are steady at 4ppm. If I drop the dosing to their recommended levels, my nitrates go right back up. I originally did the same as you with taking GFO offline, which caused an imbalance in my PO4 and NO3(PO4 = .16, NO3 = 32) which caused some heavy cynao outbreaks. Put the GFO back online and my PO4 and NO3 are back in check (NO3 = 4ppm, PO4 = .04) and cyano disappeared.

One thing I have noticed is a huge bacterial bloom in my pumps and reactor lines. Nothing in the tank itself, but it is in everything that stays static.

Reading about dosing nopox on a doser, i found it is imperative to not allow air inside the container, since the alcohols could react thus lowering potency over time? Would that be why it could cloud over time?

Some users also reported the end of tubbing evaporating, allowing for air bubbles to build inside the lines therefore making dosing very inconsistent. The best holding containers i found had check valves, allowing little air to go in the container so the liquid could be dispensed, but keeping most air out from coming in contact with the liquid(pic)



The end tubbing issue is yet to be solved though

 

[JaysLittleOcean]

I noticed you dont have holes on the container covers, is the tubbing hole allowing for air to go in as liquid comes out? Ive done lots of research on Nopox, and started dosing yesterday on my 57 gal. My tank bounces around 10ppm nitrates, so i started the first day with 2ml and will go up to 4mls today(i have 50 gals total). I find the issues based on users of this stuff come from the startng doses ramping quickly or being larger than needed. Maybe you should have started with 2mls per 25 gals?

I actually have the holes drilled in such a size that air is able to get through into the Ball Jars through the lid. It is definitely not air tight or my doser would not function properly in normal use to extract the liquid from the jar. I went with the recommended dosage but in hind sight should have ramped up slowly.

 

[homer1475]

I emailed red sea several times about their product, and got a very nice response every time, and not some canned response, but an actual response well written out and explained in detail. While I don't remember all the emails in detail, red sea mentioned lighting being an issue with it getting cloudy and breaking down. They did recommended using a dark colored dosing vessel. They emailed a picture of how they dose their product, and it was exactly as the picture you posted. Only difference is I used a solid glass tube I had from another dosing container and a john guest fitting I glued to the lid to avoid the tubing being eaten away, also on the advice from red sea. I've been dosing this for about 3 months now with 0 issue other then a small bacterial bloom in all my pumps, and reactor lines. I have noticed in the past couple weeks the bacterial bloom has died down, I'm assuming because the bacteria has finally built up enough to handle the carbon dosing?

Edit to add:

Forgot to mention, but I think I did in my other post, they also recommended one large dose a day instead of several small doses. My own tests seem to mimic their results. When I switched to several small doses a day(still the recommended levels, just spit into several small doses), my nitrates started going up. Switched back to one large dose a day, and they went down and have stayed constant.

 

[bertoni]

I have noticed in the past couple weeks the bacterial bloom has died down, I'm assuming because the bacteria has finally built up enough to handle the carbon dosing?

Another possibility is that the nutrient load is lower, so the blooms aren't as big, but it's hard to be sure about what's going on. There are lots of possibilities.

 

[ReefCowboy]

I got some supplies to make my own dosing container from a glass jar with metal lid since I've also read plastics can be bad options with the corrosive nature of NoPox?
I will post pics, maybe we can all get opinions based on what's out there as info...
I also read to remove purigen(present on chemipure blue) which I use and can offset Nopox's effectiveness. Just wanted to throw that out there to help others be aware

 

[jason2459]

does vodka interact badly with plastic? I would think it's fine. I know my vinegar containers I tap into are plastic. I'm also not sure what in purigen would interact badly with either of those two carbon sources but I'm not familiar with that product?

 

[ReefCowboy]

does vodka interact badly with plastic? I would think it's fine. I know my vinegar containers I tap into are plastic. I'm also not sure what in purigen would interact badly with either of those two carbon sources but I'm not familiar with that product?

I read this info from the Red Sea rep, someone asked if acrylic containers would be ok, and his reply was to look for alternatives.
He also mentioned some absorbing medias affecting the NoPox... Can't find the thread but I'm sure someone will find it

 

[homer1475]

I got some supplies to make my own dosing container from a glass jar with metal lid since I've also read plastics can be bad options with the corrosive nature of NoPox?

The container it comes in plastic..... Acrylic I can understand it being corrosive to because of the acetone, but it comes in a plastic bottle.

 

[jason2459]

Yep, vinegar and acrylic are bad.