Reef Lighting - Does anyone understand it?

CubeNoob

In Memoriam
Let me start off by saying I have been on a year long mission to learn about reef tank lighting the best I can... Actually this has been a 7 year mission, but only in the last year have I been able to afford the testing equipment to run tests myself.

So.. over the last 12 months, reading every scientific paper I can, emailing Sanjay with questions, talking with people like Tyree at frag shows about his experience and knowledge on the topic, and buying my very own PAR meter and Spectrometer to run my own tests.

Quick breakdown of what I have learned:

Lux = meaningless for corals

WPG (Watts per Gallon) = meaningless for lighting in general (T5HOs really blew that one out of the water so to speak)

PAR (Photosynthetic Active Radiation) = meaningless unless you have up to date spectral graphs of the bulbs your testing.

PUR (Photosynthetic Usable Radiation) = Better than PAR, but no scientific information on specific corals to determine exact PUR values, and each coral is different.

Kelvin = Not even sure about this one, what is written on the bulb/description and what I see visually are definately 2 different things, ie, my Phoenix 14k is MUCH bluer than my Radium 20k. If Kelvin meant anything at all, the Radium would be much more blue than the Phoenix, but it isn't.. and for that reason, the Phoenix having more blue, I have concluded for my setup it is hands down the best "coral bulb" on the market for growth/photosynthesis. The Radium has a higher PAR reading than the Phoenix, but I can without hesitation and with witnesses say the Phoenix gives me just about 2x the growth on my SPS corals as the Radium does. So again, PAR=Meaningless without knowing the spectral output of the bulb.

Spectrum = The output wavelengths of the bulbs means everything for this hobby.

DLI (Daily Light Index) = Great to figure out how long to run your lights each day when combined with specral output knowledge and PAR readings.

So.. first thing. PAR. PAR meters measure the entire wavelength of 400-700nm. Higher wavelengths in the Orange/Red area, the photons hit the PAR sensor more often than Blue. Think of a wave.. higher wavelengths = shorter distance between wave peaks, meaning more waves hit the sensor. The meter will then take ALL the photons that hit the sensor and give you an average # of them all, which is the # you see on the screen. Here is the problem. If the Red spectrum is hitting the sensor at a rate of 3 photons to every 1 blue photon and then you get the average of that, it doesn't tell you how good your lighting actually is. Corals in nature rely primarily on the 400-500nm spectrum for the majority of its photosynthesis (higher wavelengths do not penetrate water nearly as much and lower wavelengths, this is why the ocean is blue once you get down to a certain depth.) Higher wavelengths play minor roles in photosynthesis but bigger roles in pigmentation/coloration of the coral. Simply running a tank all in the 400-500nm spectrum will give you good growth and healthy corals, but they probably will not look very good to the eye, and your tank will not look as pleasing to you either.

Here is where PAR really fails. Take a blue bulb, like T5HO Actinics, measure the PAR. On my 22" bulbs I get about 150PAR per actinic bulb, and I know the output is entirely in the "good light" area for my corals. Great thing about blue/actinics are they do not lose their intensity much with depth. 150 at the surface, 135 @ 20" underwater. Now, if you could get one, put a pure Red bulb in place of the actinic and do the same measurements. 300 PAR at the surface.... but 40 PAR @ 20", huge drop off, not to mention the entire light it is putting out will do almost zero for your corals. They will definately not grow under red lighting. People often think of photosynthesis as a one shoe fits all type thing and it simply isn't true. Photosynthesis in plants on land can utilize the Red spectrum, and have a much broader range of light it can use for photosynthesis, where as corals, living under water, are not exposed to the higher wavelengths much at all. Sure, low tides can expose some, and I have nothing to back this up but I think when corals are exposed to the air and emmit their slime protection they hinder their ability for photosynthesis because they are more concerned about staying alive and not being killed by the elements/UV light. I don't know if it a complete stoppage or a severe slowdown, but corals are obviously not in the "growing mood" when out of the water. This last part is simply speculation though and if someone can show me proof to the contrary I would be delighted to read it.

So anyway, I can sit here and write several books on the topic, but I think this is more than enough to scare most people away as it is.. so anyone still left reading and interested, I would love to hear your thoughts, insights, links to studies (I have read every article on Advanced Aquarist 100x over now, and they have done some AMAZING work in the lighting studies area).

Lastly, to prove the point about PAR, there are several ways a person can do this on their own even without a meter. If you have the ability to setup a test tank, and can get Red MH or T5 bulbs, try this one. Put in a blue bulb (or several depending on your light setup) and put a test coral in the tank and observe for 3 days. Then take the blue out and replace with Red and run for another 3 days (if you can, usually at the end of day 2 the coral is going south quickly). If you can use a PAR meter you will see the Red bulb is putting out 2-3x the PAR as the blue bulb (makes sense, 2-3x the photons hit the sensor in red light vs blue light), yet the coral is dying, where as with the blue bulb they live. Another test I did.. I have a 6x T5HO light on my 29G. I put all 10k bulbs in there, PAR was crazy, over 1000 at the surface, but only about 200 at the bottom. Obviously there is still blue in 10k bulbs, just not as much as a pure blue bulb. Result, corals (Hyacinth birdsnest was my test) was dead right between week 3-4 of the test. I then replaced all the 10K bulbs with ATI Blue+ bulbs and ran the same test with a new frag of the same coral. PAR was around 700 at the surface and 400+ at the bottom. Much more penetration happening. Result, coral lived and actually grew after 4 weeks and kepts its coloration when placed next to the mother colony in my display tank. I encourage everyone to run their own tests if this is a topic that interest them.

I always say "Read everything you can about the topic your interested in, and use the information the best you can, but do not rely on the information unless you have independently confirmed it yourself. I live by that line of thinking and would expect no less from others reading what I write. I am not the end all be all expert on this subject by any means and will never claim to be, but I have spent over $5000 on test equipment and bulbs just for this topic in the last 12 months so it is one that I have great interest in. I also stayed at a Holiday Inn last night.. j/k ;)

Anyone... by all means, challenge me, tell me I am wrong about something if I am, but if you do PLEASE post links showing why and how I am wrong so I can revise/rerun tests to get more accurate data.
 
That's very interesting.

I do have a different point of view about the light temperature (the Kelvin reading in your bulbs). If you ask me, 10000K is good for growth, 15000K is not so good for growth but the colors are more vivid, 20000K (not 20k) makes the corals look great with no or little growth.

Actinics are not used for growth but are used as supplemental lights, particularly if you use 10000K bulbs actinics will make your colors "pop". It has to do with fluorescence, in which the corals absorb short wave light (blue) and release it in a longer wave form. This is a popular combination because the corals are growing well and they look great too; corals under 10000K without actinic supplementation look dull.

The best thing you can do is to give the corals light in a range they can thrive (over 10000K) and supplement it with more actinics.

And I totally understand your frustration, there is a lot of useless information out there; I like to read a lot but some people will drive me absolutely crazy. T5s are good, Metal Halides are bad, Metal Halides are great and T5s are crap for example (thank God I use both, lol).
 
Yup, your line of thinking is what I would call "The norm"... and what I feel is 100% wrong. 10K=worst growth (I know, ran 2 XM10k bulbs, one for 6 months, one for 3, finally couldn't stand not having much growth out of it) so I switched to a Radium20k.. had much better growth, but still not what I wanted, finally put in a Phoenix 14k which is the bluest bulb out of them all and BAM, instant forest of growth.

Also, if you run your own tests like I did, you will see Actinics are 100% for growth and 10k is mearly supplimental. You can grow even SPS corals quite well in a tank lit only by Actinics, but you can not grow SPS corals with a tank solely lit by a 10k bulb. Not enough of the 400-500nm in the 10k for growth. Also, the 250w XM 10k MH when viewed under my spectrometer and run on an M80 ballast, actually only lasts around 30-40 days before the bulb needs replacing.
 
Very interesting topic. I have a few questions though.

#1 At what point do numens (thats what "nm" stands for right?) and kelvin coincide?

#2 What were your results on the different bulbs with the spectrometer?

#3 You found that you got the best results from the Phoenix 14k. But you also said that it was the bluest bulb. Therefore was it actually burning at 14k?

#4 Did you run supplemental actinics? If not, is it possible that you got the best growth out of the bluest bulb because it was providing the necessary blue spectrum?

#5 How do you think the "myth" of 10k vs 20k growth was started?

#6 Did you let the bulbs reach their correct color before measuring them? (I have heard that it takes a while of having the MH's on for MH bulbs to reach their desired spectrum.)
 
I've noticed a lot of the bulb manufacturers like to print a spectrogram on the box/sleeve of their product. Have you compared the sample spectrograms to your own measurements? Is there a lot of "artistic license" in some of the samples?
 
What you've said is mostly correct, but there are several things that you've either got a bit confused or I just didn't understand your explanation

First, PAR is a simple count of photons per unit time. There is no weighting or averaging in the measurement. 1 blue photon counts exactly as much as 1 red photon. The PAR difference between blue and red light comes from the output of the light source itself. Blue photons are more energetic so you get fewer per watt of energy input.

Though PAR has its drawbacks, it's such a widely used measure because it's simple and it's what counts most for photosynthesis. Photosynthesis is a 1 for 1 process. For each photon from 400-700 nm absorbed you get 1 reaction and exactly the same chemical energy, regardless of the color of the photon. PAR is a count of these photons, so it basically tells you how many reactions you can perform if each photon was absorbed.

The limitation here is that it is assumed that all photons will be absorbed equally by the zoox, which is not the case. Zoox have a major peak in absorbance in the blue and a minor peak in the red parts of the spectrum but absorb well across all of the colors in between. However, since you're still absorbing 70%+ of the photons that hit and after that color doesn't matter, it's a decent assumption at intensities close to saturation. Well below saturation it's not a good assumption.
 
Okay, I think I see a physics problem. The OP seems to be mixing wave and particle theories of light.
Higher wavelengths in the Orange/Red area, the photons hit the PAR sensor more often than Blue. Think of a wave.. higher wavelengths = shorter distance between wave peaks, meaning more waves hit the sensor. The meter will then take ALL the photons that hit the sensor and give you an average # of them all, which is the # you see on the screen. Here is the problem. If the Red spectrum is hitting the sensor at a rate of 3 photons to every 1 blue photon...
To the best of my knowledge, one crest and one trough in a wave does not necessarily equal one photon. I could be wrong, but that seems too simple (and comprehensible) for quantum physics.

I believe CubeNoob and greenbean36191 would agree that if a lamp is producing blue and red photons simultaneously, it will fire off a few high-energy blue photons and a bunch of lower-energy red photons. The PAR meter catches them all, and doesn't distinguish between them.

If I understand things correctly, I think CubeNoob was wishing for a measurement scheme and device with a narrower wavelength window, like 400-500nm, centered around the zooxanthellae's major peak, which wouldn't include the "less useful" light with a wavelength from 501-700 nm, near the minor peak.

Edit: After reading the previous posts again, I don't think the following applies to the argument at hand, but I'll leave it here as trivia.

There is "averaging" going on in the PAR meter itself. Its measuring period is probably some fraction of a second. Once per second (or so), it probably averages the number of photons that hit it in each of the last several fractions of a second, and displays that as the "current PAR".
In other words:
0-0.25 second = 20 photons hit the sensor
0.26-0.50 second = 24 photons
0.51-0.75 second = 18 photons
0.76-1.0 second = 26 photons
(20+24+18+26)/4 = 22
To represent the PAR received during that full second, the machine flashes 22 on the screen.

Many scientific instruments work this way. An average of a bunch of results taken over a small period of time is considered to be more representative of actual conditions than a single measurement.
 
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3 red photons (700nm) + 1 blue photon (400nm) captured by the PAR meter = a PAR measurement of 4.

If you are totally focused on the major peak, and don't want to count the minor peak, then the PAR measurement is misleading.

If you're more concerned with the total amount of light reaching the corals in the potentially useful range for photosynthesis, as opposed to energy "wasted" producing 300nm and 1,200nm radiation, then the PAR measurement is useful.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15555464#post15555464 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by CubeNoob
Yup, your line of thinking is what I would call "The norm"... and what I feel is 100% wrong. 10K=worst growth (I know, ran 2 XM10k bulbs, one for 6 months, one for 3, finally couldn't stand not having much growth out of it) so I switched to a Radium20k.. had much better growth, but still not what I wanted, finally put in a Phoenix 14k which is the bluest bulb out of them all and BAM, instant forest of growth.

Also, if you run your own tests like I did, you will see Actinics are 100% for growth and 10k is mearly supplimental. You can grow even SPS corals quite well in a tank lit only by Actinics, but you can not grow SPS corals with a tank solely lit by a 10k bulb. Not enough of the 400-500nm in the 10k for growth. Also, the 250w XM 10k MH when viewed under my spectrometer and run on an M80 ballast, actually only lasts around 30-40 days before the bulb needs replacing.

A friend of mine has a dedicated frag tank with an Ushio 250w SE 10000K halide and no actinics and he swears by it. You are leaving me scratching my head.

I always felt 2 T5s were too little for my tank, I'll upgrade to 4 next month and we'll see if growth doubles, right now is alright but nothing stellar.
 
Thanks all for the great, rational, and educated responses. It sure feels like a breath of fresh air compared to what I am used to on here. I love to debate things in an educated manner.

I started this thread to do exactly what the last poster stated, just leave people scratching there head and maybe a few people will go "Hmmm.. there does seem to be more to this than I initially thought, let me try xxxx to see what results I get". I don't claim to be an expert in this area at all, just very very curious because I feel there is much more to learn than what we know now about lighting.

So many question, and very good ones IMO. I will try to answer what I can and hope others can chime in to answer others or correct me if I say something wrong, which does happen.

First response to Michael above.. then I will reply seperately to each one since my replies will probably be a little long winded.

I started my lighting journey with the thinking, like most people, that PAR was not perfect, but very good and the best measurement we have at this time. So I bought a meter. After the first day of testing it dawned on me that the PAR meter really isn't telling me really anything I wanted to find out, like which bulb is better than another, how long do bulbs usable lifespan last, etc. I quickly realized the meter is a small part of the equation. What I should have bought first was the spectrometer, then a PAR meter second. Only then do I feel the PAR meter is of any value to me. Simply reading the # on the screen did not tell me what type of light my corals were getting. I came to realize pretty quickly that my initial thinking of QUANTITY of light that I thought was everything, was really nothing and it came down solely to QUALITY of light. Quantity really plays a small role as long as your within a range that is acceptable to the corals your growing. So... that said, my first light setup was a M80 ballast pushing a 250w XM 10k @ 372w, putting out 975PAR, coupled with 4x T5HO UV Super Actinics overdriven via an Icecap660 ballast. I thought "Push it all to the edge and get the most light possible". 3 months in, all my T5s blew, and I got on a schedule of replacing all my T5s every 3 months and MH every 6 months. After the first 6 months I tried to switch from the 6 month old XM to a new Radium bulb... my corals went nuts and not in a good way. At the time I though "ok, the Radium is only 1/2 the PAR of the XM, that has to be the reason" so I put another new XM 10k back in to replace the Radium and my corals perked back up. Initial observation told me one thing, but later on I learned what I thought I was observing, reduction of PAR, was not the problem at all. The problem it turns out was the XM 10k @ 6 months old the spectrum had shifted so far (yellowing) that the 400-500nm range (yes, I would love a meter that could just measure that range) that it was hardly existent anymore under a spectrometer. Heavy yellows, greens, orange, and red, but just a tiny bump of blue. That was the answer, it wasn't the reduction of PAR that caused my corals to react badly, it was the large spectral shift, and in fact the Radium was putting out so much MORE good light than the XM even though it only had 1/2 the PAR reading that it was harming my corals. I then wanted to see how long the 10k bulb actually lasted on an M80 ballast (which overdrives them) and to my suprise, under a Spectrometer, I give the XM10k usable lifespan on the M80 ballast at 30-40 days before it needs replacing due to spectral shift. Obviously on other ballast that don't push the bulb as hard, or run it at its rated 250w you will get much more life out of the bulb. I also tested my Actinics on the Icecap and brand new Actinic bulbs being overdriven on an Icecap660 lasted about 5 days before major spectral shift and I give them 21 days of actually usable light before it falls out of the 400nm area. Obviously like others stated above, just because it shifted to the 500nm area that doesn't mean it is terrible light, just not as good and gets worse each day, and definately no longer what I would call an "Actinic" bulb after 3 weeks.

So the conclusion I have come to is the 10k bulb is the best for a lot of peoples viewing pleasure, but mediocre when it comes to quality of light the corals need. The Radium is a very good bulb with years of experience from all the major players in the hobby so I would never dare to say it is a bad bulb, but I do feel the Phoenix 14k is a much better bulb for corals, but to the human looking at the tank the looks are subjective.

Lastly, on your 2x T5s you have, if and when you upgrade to 4x T5s, put in 2 ATI Blue+ in your second 2 sockets and leave your one actinic/one daylight that I am assuming you have now in your original sockets. My 29G, 6 T5HOs, I run 2 UV 454 bulbs, 2 Geisemann True Actinics, one UV 75:25 and one AquaticLife 700+ 10k bulb (which is pink) and even my SPS corals I threw in the tank are growing like crazy, even without a sump, skimmer, or anything fancy other than a HOB filter and 2 powerheads. I found that on T5HOs, the best ratio for me is 4-5 "blue" type bulbs vs 1-2 "daylight" type bulbs, give me a nice 14k color in the tank and give the corals all the quality light they can handle.

Edit: Here are pics of the XM 10k PAR reading, 14" below the bulb/Lumenbright reflector just above the water. First pic is without Actinics, second picture is with.

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<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15556508#post15556508 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by greenbean36191
What you've said is mostly correct, but there are several things that you've either got a bit confused or I just didn't understand your explanation

First, PAR is a simple count of photons per unit time. There is no weighting or averaging in the measurement. 1 blue photon counts exactly as much as 1 red photon. The PAR difference between blue and red light comes from the output of the light source itself. Blue photons are more energetic so you get fewer per watt of energy input.

Excellent post and I stand corrected. I said "average" and that was definately not the right term.. you are correct about the way the meter collects the data, there is no "averaging" involved. Everything else you said is great information and I apprectiate the post. I have read that information in the past but you have summed it up better than I ever could have.

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15556006#post15556006 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by barnett8
Very interesting topic. I have a few questions though.

#1 At what point do numens (thats what "nm" stands for right?) and kelvin coincide?

#2 What were your results on the different bulbs with the spectrometer?

#3 You found that you got the best results from the Phoenix 14k. But you also said that it was the bluest bulb. Therefore was it actually burning at 14k?

#4 Did you run supplemental actinics? If not, is it possible that you got the best growth out of the bluest bulb because it was providing the necessary blue spectrum?

#5 How do you think the "myth" of 10k vs 20k growth was started?

#6 Did you let the bulbs reach their correct color before measuring them? (I have heard that it takes a while of having the MH's on for MH bulbs to reach their desired spectrum.)

1: nm=nanometer is a unit of measurement. Here is a good read to understand it better. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Light
Color............... Wavelength (nm)
Red ................ 780 - 622
Orange ........... 622 - 597
Yellow ............. 597 - 577
Green ............. 577 - 492
Blue ................ 492 - 455
Violet .............. 455 - 390

2: Under the spectrometer I found that I can not rely on the spectral graphs that come on the bulb boxes or I see online if I use an M80 ballast on SE MH bulbs. As expected, they are not acurate for me except for one, the Radium. The 250w SE Radium was designed to run on the M80 ballast, only bulb I know of that is, and its graph was similar to what I observed, but here is the problem. The spectral graphs are what the bulb looks like NEW. We all know there is a few week burn in involved to get the lasting color of the bulb. The Radium was actually very blue the first week, then it quickly tapered off the next 2 weeks to a I would describe as an actinic white color. Interesting color and I did like how my tank looked standing a few feet back, but closeup on the corals you didn't seem to get nearly the "pop" factor out of some corals like I do with the Phoenix. I have only run my 10k bulb 'to the end of its life' so to speak but I am monitoring the Phoenix 14k right now to see when the spectrum shifts more than 20-30% from day 1. I don't have much data yet in terms of life expectancy yet since I have just recently started getting neck deep in the subject. I also need to be able to have more test scenerios, ie, different ballast that run the bulbs normally and not overdrive them. I know that information will be more valuable to the masses vs the data I am collecting now, since I have a 'niche' ballast. I did replace my Icecap660 with 2 normal Universal electronic ballast so I am no longer overdriving the T5s and I have 3 ATI Blue+ and a Geisemann True Actinic in there right now.

3. Ya, it doesn't make sense to me either. I think the Phoenix is the oddball though because I have also tried other bulbs like the 14K AquaMaxx bulb and that looked almost identical to the Radium to the eye. If I were rating them, I would call the Phoenix 20k and the Radium14k on my ballast. I can't compare when run on other ballast though, or DE bulbs. They will definately look different than my setup. But the point is, the rating in K is not even close to exact science, it is a very big ballpark figure of what the color of the light will look like. Your never going to know how any bulb looks on your tank until you actually try it. Every ballast is different and even 2 of the exact same ballast and bulb combinations can look slightly different.

4: I run 4x T5HO bulbs in setup in dusk/dawn fasion. I think of my T5s as my "supercharger" to my MH as well as my insurance policy for the MH spectral shift, lessons the impact IMO when you have actinics. I am just now testing the lifespan of my actinics on normal ballast and don't know the life expectancy yet. I know it is going to be a lot longer than when I was overdriving them though, but I highly doubt I am going to ever go more than 6 months between replacing all bulbs.

5: Not really sure. One guess is maybe when people first started getting into reef tanks all that was available in high intensity lighting was normal outdoor 6700k or below MH bulbs and when 10k bulbs came out the got much better growth. Just a guess on why 10k's are commonly refered to as the "growth" bulb but my experience definately tells me different. I think that is partially due to many years of R&D and much better 14k and 20k bulbs available today.

6: I measured them daily until I saw the spectrum stabilize. Usually between 2-3 weeks daily usage for me. Then just weekly now on the Phoenix and now it is just to find out when it reaches the cut off percentage in shift away from the 400-500nm spectrum. I am almost positive it will reach that point before it reaches a PAR drop percentage since spectral shift happens within the PAR spectrum, PAR will remain stable as the shift happens, but the bulb will still be burning up the lower spectrum quicker than the upper spectrum. Once the elements in the bulb are near depletion then you will start to see a decline in PAR numbers, at which time the blue will have really shifted.
 
I was rather under the impression that PAR was weighted, and discounts the value of, for example, green. There are examples of weighting curves around, for example these - http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/72/Par_action_spectrum.gif - the second one is very close to the curve used to calculate PAR from a straight count of photons. If you want a straight count of photons then use is a cheap LUX meter that doesn't do any weighting at all (if you want to guesstimate PAR a cheap is better than an expensive luxmeter because of this). Licor and other manufacturers smooth the curve a little, and use that to weight the photon count by wavelengh.

Of course, as you've identified the problem comes form this spectra coming from terrestial plants and is not totally applicable....
 
CubeNoob, frist off thanks for all the info you are sharing. This area of the hobby is so fustrating and everyone seems to have the right answer (just ask them, they'll tell you!). I'm not educated enough to really debate with you one way or the other but i find your experiences with the bulbs and your test interesting to say the least. That being said i have a couple of questions.
1. in your experience when trying different bulbs and getting best growth with phoenix 14k, is it possible the growth is due to the fact that the corals have aclimated to the tank and not necessarily due to the light? what i mean by this is it that you tested the phoenix bulbs last? have you put back the other bulbs and retested for growth/color?
2. The test you ran about running red bulbs for 3 days then atinics for 3day stating that the corals were almost dead in the 3 days using the red. Is it possible that was due to the fact that the corals were being burned by too strong a bulb from the switch? in other words if you aclimate the corals to red bulb then switch to blue would the same results happen?
3. when a bulb shift spectrum does this mean if i use a 20k and the shift happens towards the red spectrum does my bulb become 14k? if this is so why would someone have to change bulbs because of age? i know bulbs lose intensity due to time usage but most dropoff (probably 95%)happen within the first 3 months and then tapers off thereafter. what's your opinion on this?
 
I was rather under the impression that PAR was weighted, and discounts the value of, for example, green.
No. Again, PAR is an unweighted photon count. Each color in the spectrum counts equally.

There are examples of weighting curves around, for example these - http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...on_spectrum.gif - the second one is very close to the curve used to calculate PAR from a straight count of photons.
This is an activity spectrum, not a weighting curve and has nothing to do with PAR measurement. This graph shows the relative number of photons hitting a (terrestrial plant) chloroplast that are absorbed vs. reflected at each wavelength. The biggest drawback with PAR measurement is that it doesn't take this into account, but for zooxanthellae, especially near saturating intensities, it's fairly unimportant since you don't see nearly as much drop off of absorption in the yellow and green.

If you want a straight count of photons then use is a cheap LUX meter that doesn't do any weighting at all (if you want to guesstimate PAR a cheap is better than an expensive luxmeter because of this).
No. Lux is a weighted measurement, not a straight count of photons. Lux is intended to measure how bright a light would look to the human eye, not how useful it is for photosynthesis. As a result it measures a broader range of the spectrum and applies a weighting curve that is supposed to reflect the sensitivity of the human eye to different colors. Lux meters are more sensitive to green and yellow and less sensitive to blue and red, which is the opposite of most photosynthetic organisms. If the meter isn't applying any weighting then it's not a lux meter.
 
CubeNoob, from what you've said, it sounds like overdriven lamps undergo spectrum shift much faster than they would on a normal ballast. If it's true that spectrum is much more important than undifferentiated PAR, that makes your results a pretty strong argument against overdriving lamps. Once again, the conventional wisdom/latest trend (overdrive everything!) may not be best for our corals.
 
Reefsahoy, I think I can answer #3. No, a 20,000 k bulb does not change into a 14,000 k bulb. The manufacturers apply those labels to their bulbs, and they don't necessarily reflect the exact color temperature of the bulb. Two 14,000 k bulbs from different manufacturers may actually have very different spectra. So to say that a 20,000 k bulb will have the qualities of a 14,000 k bulb after its spectrum starts to shift is probably not accurate.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15562670#post15562670 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by KarlBob
CubeNoob, from what you've said, it sounds like overdriven lamps undergo spectrum shift much faster than they would on a normal ballast. If it's true that spectrum is much more important than undifferentiated PAR, that makes your results a pretty strong argument against overdriving lamps. Once again, the conventional wisdom/latest trend (overdrive everything!) may not be best for our corals.
from what I have gathered from CubeNoob is that overdriving any bulb is not the best thing to do unless you could afford to change out your bulbs every 3 months or sooner.

I am a total noob myself but I totally believe CubeNoob's theories on lighting and how important Actinics are to a reef tank.

Maybe if he has some time down the road he could start a thread on Solar Tube lighting.
 
CubeNoob, my experience with 10K bulbs have been nothing but outstanding when it comes to growth.

having said that, I truly belive there is much more to growth than PAR or lighting, I had incredible SPS growth under 250 watt XM10K on magnetic ballast, literally in 2 years SPS corals were crawling out of the surface, you could not stick your hand in the tank. I have also seen great growth out of XM20Ks, February TOTM.

I am experiencing slower growth in my new tank with bluer bulbs but I also belive that is due to it being a newer tank, and just recently around 6 - 7 month mark corals started to take off.

In order to truly test this one needs to put 10K XM on one end of the tank and 20K or 14K on the other end of the tank, set up very similar sized frags and watch the growth in the same conditions. We also need to make sure flow is the same.
 
Would the depth of the coral collected not also effect it's growth based on light temp? I realize most of what we keep are shallow water corals but wouldn't something that came from a greater depth be adapted to use more of the blue spectrum? Just a thought.
 
This is turning into a great thread thanks to the wonderful responses. :D I will post more pictures from over the year, side by side with dates to show growth under a 10k bulb vs the other bulbs. I will agree that my tests are in no way setup to be "scientific" like some of the test scenerios people have suggested but I do plan on doing just those types of tests in the near future so I can answer all these great questions people are asking.

Quick answer to jenglish. That is a question I ask myself all the time.. what depth did this coral come from in nature, how has being aquacultured over time affected that coral, and what is that corals ideal PUR. Those are questions I can't really answer but would love to be able to at some point. I really don't know exactly how deep certain corals are found, but I do think most of them do come from depths deeper than 4' in the water. The poccilopora being one of the few "surface" corals that I know of. At 4' deep in the water, higher spectrums of light really start to get hindered.

I don't want people thinking I am advocating "complete" blue light on a tank. I know that far to the extreme is not good either, I just think most of the spectrum/intensity of the light reaching the coral should come from the lower wavelengths, but you should still have the whole spectrum over the tank, just like the sun provides. This is one of several reasons why LED (monochromatic light) is still not that great for reef tanks.. but LEDs are making huge advances yearly and it is only a matter of time before they are the "norm", but still I feel that is 5-10 years away. After LEDs though I really think lighting will come from light "sheets" of things like OLED or LCD technology. Just glue a sheet of paper to the top of the canopy, plug it into a powersupply/controller, and you have unlimited options for lighting off a simply sheet of OLED paper.. in 10+ years.

More to come as I get time to respond.....
 

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