Refugium - Deep sand bed or no? Recommendations on stocking refugium

[Wannabeoceangrl]

I'm currently trying to decide how I want to stock my refugium. I'm thinking deep sand bed but the more I hear / read the more confused I get...

This is what I've collected so far...

about 20 pounds of very fine established live sand (in friends set up for several years)

several small pieces of live rock - baseball to softball size

some Chaeto

A mangrove tree

simple lighting - metal clamp on light from Home Depo and a 100 watt Daylight bulb

20 gallon long sump with 16 inches set aside for the refugium

I'm planning to take out most of my sand in my 75 gallon tank during a 70% water change tomorrow so I'll have that sand also if it can be of any use to me...

Any ideas / advice would be appriciated.

 

[Michael]

if you want a deep bed the refugium is the best place to put it, eventually however it will want replacing, well one day after a couple of years perhaps, IMO a macro algae would be a good idea, and providing you have enough live rock in the tank, then nothing else.

 

[Wannabeoceangrl]

if you want a deep bed the refugium is the best place to put it, eventually however it will want replacing, well one day after a couple of years perhaps, IMO a macro algae would be a good idea, and providing you have enough live rock in the tank, then nothing else.

nothing added to the sand at at all other than macro algae?

 

[Michael]

A bare sump with nothing other than macro algae and a reactor or 2 full of chemical filtration is workable, as is a bare berlin sump and regular water changes.

 

[Original Fin]

Newbie disclaimer: I'm sort of testing out my what I think I've learned from reading forums knowledge on you. If I get something horribly wrong, I'm sure someone will jump in and set me straight. I've been at this less than a year, but I did stay at a Holiday in last night.

My immediate concern would be removing all that sand from an established display. Depending on a bunch of factors, this could easily cause a crash, either by a mass release of nutrients/toxins from deep layers, or killing off a large portion of bio filtration. I'm sure there are safe ways to do it, but I've never done it. I know I'd want to be really sure of it before I attempted.

How deep is your sand bed, and how old is it? Are you planning to move all livestock out of the system when doing this?

I think sand in the fuge is a matter of personal prefference, as long as it's not too deep. Bare bottom is easy to siphon detritus from, whereas a shallow live sand bed takes care of detritus naturally. A true deep sand bed should not be in a refugium. You want to discourage life in a DSB, that's part of what makes it a viable long term nutrient export solution. Eventually, you'll need to remove and replenish that sand as it reaches it's saturation point, and that's not something you want to do when it's been encouraged to become part of your bio filtration. Also, when you do get to replacing it, you don't want to do so in a way that stirs it up in a mass release of toxins to your system.

My Chaeto does well with CFL's in the 2700-3500K range using a simple clip on shop light type of reflector. I had no luck with 6500K. Regular 100w incandescants are probably going to be hit or miss, and will put off alot of heat. Cheato also likes a decent amount of flow, and benefits from being manually rotated if the underside starts to brown out.

GL!:thumbsup:

 

[pwhitby]

when replacing a DSB you first isolate the sump/refugium....so figure that out BEFORE you plumb it.

All you do is turn off the water flow, remove some water and some of the sand...maybe a jug full. Collect the macro algae and keep.

Shopvac out the rest and discard.

Take the jug of sand and thoroughly rinse in old tank water, then refill the refugium with new sand and the old sand- now clean- and the macro algaes.

Let it settle, add water flow (slowly to prevent a snow storm) and presto- you are back in business.

Feed lightly for a few weeks and after that you are good to go.

Paul.

 

[jeff@zina.com]

If you're going to have a mangrove, you need the deep bed. But mangroves are problematic and pretty much useless for anything other than aesthetics. Otherwise, your setup is doable. My only other caveat would be that a 16" section of your 20 long would leave very little for the return section. I use an entire 20L for a sump without refugium. The refugium is a second tank next to it.

Jeff

 

[dublo8]

Unless you plan on having about 20-30 mangroves, 1 isn't going to do anything. They also require constant attention. In my sump, my fuge is somewhat of a secondary display. I wouldn't do a dsb but i would load it up with rock rubble or just more live rock in general is a good idea with about 2" of sand, chaeto and a couple little critters to top it all off.

 

[rayn]

I run a dsb on my 120 with a 55 sump. 4-5 inches, cheato, and a small powerhead to keep things moving. Remember when you plumb into the fuge area to put a valve on it to regulate the flow. To much and you blow the sand all over and defeat the purpose. That is why I have a small powerhead to blow the cheato around and the water coming in at almost a trickle. I have no critters in my dsb beside pods and whatever has came into the sand. I figure the fuge is there to grow any of the unwanted algea that I don't want in the DT. If it gets to much or to large, I will pull the algea out and clean a little, but I generally let it go. I light mine with a pc bulb I got used for cheap.

 

[Wannabeoceangrl]

Newbie disclaimer: I'm sort of testing out my what I think I've learned from reading forums knowledge on you. If I get something horribly wrong, I'm sure someone will jump in and set me straight. I've been at this less than a year, but I did stay at a Holiday in last night.

My immediate concern would be removing all that sand from an established display. Depending on a bunch of factors, this could easily cause a crash, either by a mass release of nutrients/toxins from deep layers, or killing off a large portion of bio filtration. I'm sure there are safe ways to do it, but I've never done it. I know I'd want to be really sure of it before I attempted.

How deep is your sand bed, and how old is it? Are you planning to move all livestock out of the system when doing this?

I think sand in the fuge is a matter of personal prefference, as long as it's not too deep. Bare bottom is easy to siphon detritus from, whereas a shallow live sand bed takes care of detritus naturally. A true deep sand bed should not be in a refugium. You want to discourage life in a DSB, that's part of what makes it a viable long term nutrient export solution. Eventually, you'll need to remove and replenish that sand as it reaches it's saturation point, and that's not something you want to do when it's been encouraged to become part of your bio filtration. Also, when you do get to replacing it, you don't want to do so in a way that stirs it up in a mass release of toxins to your system.

My Chaeto does well with CFL's in the 2700-3500K range using a simple clip on shop light type of reflector. I had no luck with 6500K. Regular 100w incandescants are probably going to be hit or miss, and will put off alot of heat. Cheato also likes a decent amount of flow, and benefits from being manually rotated if the underside starts to brown out.

GL!:thumbsup:

I removed EVERYTHING from the display tank; Livestock is in a huge rubbemaid tub with a heater and air. When putting everything back into the tank, I'm only replacing a small portion of the original sand and 40 gallons of the original water. I also removed some lava rock and added some lace rock. The sand bed was about 2 1/2 inches deep originally, my goal is to have a very thin layer in the main tank (1/2 inch at the most).

Since obtaining the tank 3 months ago, I've slowly removed all the bioballs in the sump and replaced them with small pieces of live rock (baseball / softball size) I'd like to do a little more but not sure the best way to go about it. .

 

[Wannabeoceangrl]

I wouldn't do a dsb but i would load it up with rock rubble or just more live rock in general is a good idea with about 2" of sand, chaeto and a couple little critters to top it all off.

This sounds simple enough.

I CAN DOOO IT!!
:bounce2: