Reidi Baby Prep Checklist

Reverend Reefer

Reverend Reefer

New member
ok so to alleviate my fears of what happens when my reidis get preggers, im starting to compile stuff to prepare. i've decided to go with a green water style of propagation/raising and see how this goes. here's what i have so far:

Things I can get now:
1. rectangular tank, maybe 10-15 gallons
2. plastic fishbowls, the rounded kind, maybe two
3. air pump
4. airline tubing, the flex kind plus some rigid parts for the ends
5. cotton wool
6. some 2L and/or 5L soda pop bottles, i'd need a couple for rotifers & baby brine shrimp
7. light, maybe one of those clamp on ones should be fine?
8. 500 micron mesh screen to keep rotifers from escaping?
9. hang on back filter, maybe Marineland 400 biowheel?
10. Cloram X or Amquel+? (sodium hydroxymethanesulfonate?)
11. Methylene blue
12. Formalin

Things i will need to know where to get, once dude gets preggers
1. Inert phyto/nanno
2. Live Nannochloropsis
3. Live rotifers
4. Live copepods
5. Baby brine shrimp eggs

is there anything im missing? this is my first time so im pretty nervous/excited about it. in the reefing world, biowheel filters get a bad name but in the seahorse propagation world, it seems alot of people use these biowheels. im not exactly sure what they are, i just stayed away becuz of RC peeps slagging them but are they good for SH raising? i need to get a filter sooner than later so i can get it running and seeded in preparation.
 
as far as i can understand here's the steps im going to follow in brief:

Setup
1. put airline along side of rounded fishbowls to create circular motion of water
2. cut big hole along side of rounded fishbowls
3. cover big hole with 500 micron screen
4. place rounded fishbowls into rectangular tank
5. fill everything with seawater (not sure of proper SG yet?)
6. place hob filter in rectangular tank
7. maybe add some macro in rectangular tank? maybe LR? maybe add live copepods?

Process
1. remove babies from SH tank using cup or turkey baster
2. place into circular fish bowls

For first month follow rotifer diet. Slowly move to Baby Brine Shrimp.
3. add live nanno/green water with rotifers to feed babies
3a. rotifers culture: raise rotifers in 2L soda bottle with 2/3 green water, 1/3 SW, aerate
3b. sieve 1/3 contents rotifers using .49 micron mesh and put in fishbowl for SH food
3c. repeat making more cultures, feed every 2.5 hrs? or 5x a day? siphon our left overs after 45min-1hr?
4. add live nanno to system, not sure how much?? maybe enuff to keep it green??
5. clean regularly, do regular water changes
6. add some CloramX as needed, very tiny tiny bit, like the tip of a matchstick? if ammonia rises or they act funny?

Sub-process
7. if babies don't seem to be doing well, eg. itchy?, high ammonia, do methylene blue + formalin dip in freshwater
7a. 5min dip in freshwater with 2 drops formalin/100ml + 1ml meth blue/100ml freshwater

After 20 days or so start going with BBS diet, artemia
8. following same green water process, start introducing baby brine shrimp as food
8a. something about gut loading and/or decapsulating BBS, oh, it took me awhile to realize that BBS=artemia, same thing! haha.
8b. seems like you can add a drop of selco? which makes them more nutritious? maybe should add that to my list. either way, add selco after 48 hr old brine shrimp, enrich for 6 hrs with selco, then change SW and feed BBS with phyto
8c. important not to overfeed BBS

After 2 months or when they start hitching
9. start feeding more nutritious foods like mysis shrimp (seems that baby brine shrimp are not very nutritious)
10. start to slowly not add so much live nanno/green water
11. start on frozen foods, cyclops seems work?

Comments:

Overall, still not sure how much live nanno/green water to be adding or how often. Or how much CloramX to be putting in/how often.

All changes to different foods are done very gradually.

The change over to frozen foods seems to not go so well for many folks.

When they say start feeding live mysis, im still not sure where to get live mysis or even if that's an option.

If i have some copepods in the main rectangular tank, how do they get in to the fishbowls if there's a screen? or do i start moving them into the rectangular part once they're starting to hitch.

Additional things to consider

I. logically, health of fry is dependent on health of parents, so probably should be bulking them up on food during pregnancy. not sure how long this takes, i.e., how long before birth?

II. seems like a lot of people think copepods are more nutritious than rotifers and baby brine shrimp. maybe culturing some copepods in the rectangular tank is a good idea although im not sure how these little things get into the fish bowls. also, arctic pods are not so good apparently for this purpose.

III. seems like everything needs to be very sterile.

IV. they say you need aeration that is very light, like 1 bubble/2 secs. not sure how u do that? do i need a special air pump or do i use one of those gang valves? i don't run an airpump in my reef so i dont know how they work.

V. not sure exactly what they mean by "brood" but im guessing they give birth in spurts, where u get like a hundred at a time, but not sure how often it happens, like every 2 weeks u get another "brood"?? kinda confusing for me. so how do u deal with that? do u just start another set of birthing at a diff time period?

VI. seems like u have to fish out the "weaker" ones as u go along raising them to reduce competition and ensure the survival of the healthier ones. kinda weird but it makes sense, u can't raise all hundreds of em, right?
 
Your seahorses have never eaten copepods before you got them.
I fed them gut loaded rotifers for two weeks, gut loaded rotifers and bbs for another two weeks, and then just gut loaded bbs until they were able to eat larger brine shrimp.
The reidi fry started to hitch at around 2 weeks and as I remember they were all hitching at the end of one month.
I can't advise you on your set up as all I used were 4 litre jars with rigid airlines and no filtration.
I did use greenwater.
I may be able to supply you with starter cultures of rots and nanno if I come to Miss. to pick up more seahorse fry next month.
I raise the rotifers on inert greenwater made by blending spirulina powder in a blender.
I don't use Selco type emulsions anymore as I find the powdered Algamac 3050 to be better for working with and it sure as heck stores a lot longer.
For the Cloram-X, I mix up 128g of it in 2 litres of water and that solution I add .5ml for each ppm of ammonia per liter that I want protection for.
In my case, I don't use filtration of any kind so I add 12ml to each 4L jar giving me approx. 6ppm ammonia protection.
I no longer use formalin, and, I don't cull weaker fry.
I use an inline air valve to control air flow so that the water is moving sufficiently to keep the fry in motion so they can't stop at the top.
There are a lot of others than can help you with the kreisil information as I gave up on it and went for simplicity.
 
1. put airline along side of rounded fishbowls to create circular motion of water <-- Put a control on there so you can adjust the airflow. You want it going pretty quickly, and it will create a dead spot in the center where they will hang out.

3. cover big hole with 500 micron screen <-- Make sure that you silicone this in good and don't leave ANY little spots for them to get out or stuck to. If there are spots, they will find them...

4. place rounded fishbowls into rectangular tank fill everything with seawater (not sure of proper SG yet?) <-- fill tank up to the bottom lip of the goldfish bowl not the top of the bowl. SG can range from 1.020 -1.025. I started with 1.020 but found it was easier to just keep it at 1.025 for water making purposes. I use a lot of water....

6. place hob filter in rectangular tank <-- you may need to adjust this depending on how the kresiel sits in the tank. It can create a suction effect which sucks the fry against the netting in the kresiel. Just be aware of it in case it happens.

7. maybe add some macro in rectangular tank? maybe LR? maybe add live copepods? <-- no macro or live rock or you take the chance of hydroids..live copepods are good but you will be siphoning the tank so much that they will disappear quickly and not reproduce enough to clean the tank. Putting some (tisbe) in the kresiel for snacks is a good idea...

Process
1. remove babies from SH tank using cup or turkey baster <-- turkey baster is a lot easier.... buy a couple, they will be your friend in this :)

2. place into circular fish bowls <-- this is when you will adjust the airline flow.. make sure to silicone the airline into the side of the bowl or the fry will find their way out around the airline.. they can be sneaky


For first month follow rotifer diet. Slowly move to Baby Brine Shrimp.
- Here's what I do. I feed rots for the first 3 or 4 days along with a little NBBS. After 4 days, anyone not eating the brine gets culled to give the others a better chance at survival.

I put formalin in the tank on day 1, 3, and 5 and then any time that I see scratching (if it's not ammonia related)

I have never used methylene blue or used a formalin dip for fry. I just put the formalin in the tank...

I start enriched brine as soon as they are large enough to eat it.. a week or so after birth. At the 2 week period, I start adding tiny amounts of cyclopeeze. You need to really make sure you siphon all of it out if they don't eat it because the frozen really fouls the tank...

I wouldnt' enrich with selco. I enrich brine with a combo of algae pastes, spirrulla ,vitamin c, algae mac, and a bunch of other ingredients...


Overall, still not sure how much live nanno/green water to be adding or how often. Or how much CloramX to be putting in/how often. <-- dont' use green water, instead I just do 20-30% water changes daily as I am cleaning out old food and poop. I only use a decholoirnator if there is an ammonia problem. I used seeded sponge filters in my tanks so I don't normally have that problem. I do 100% water changes on the tanks and sterilize everything once a week to get rid of the slime film that builds up and houses cilliates which will kill fry...

I think that I covered most of what you asked.. if I missed anything, ask specifics and I will answer them. The most important thing to keep in mind is that reidi are really hard to raise. Don't get discouraged.. it took me a long time to be able to successfully raise them.

Also, figure out what works for you. The same thing that works for others does not always work for everyone. And as you adjust your method, only change one thing each batch so you can figure out what is working and what is not working....

Good luck.... :)
 
wow! thanks for the info. definitely a lot to consider... i realize im trying to give logical thoughts on weighing different factors in order to make my decisions but also realize that success doesn't necessarily follow the logic in my head (or anyone's logic for that matter) given that even the exact same method will have high variability in success. i guess since we're all in the relative dark about which factors matter the most, im probably going to just have to make some random decisions, maybe based on availability of resources and funding.

ray
a. im definitely going to need to reevaluate my timeline given ray's experiences. ray, your timeline looks fast! that's definitely good to know though. if they can start hitching at 2 weeks to a month, then i'll need to be prepared for that, given that i wasn't even going to put anything for them to hitch on til after 2 months!

b. i like your simplicity style by the way. i have to admit, im not comfortable with it, being a gear junkie and all, but i definitely need some lessons in stripping things down. i do have a tendency to make things more complicated than they are.

beth
a. putting formalin directly in makes life a lot easier than having to take them out and dip them. good info. definitely going to consider that, once i look up what formulin actually is!

Does anyone actually decapsulate their baby brine shrimp?
- seems like there are a lot of instructions out there on the intergoogleweb but nobody is saying they actually do it. is this just common knowledge and everyone assumes it to be common practice or nobody really bothers?

to cull or not to cull, that is the question
- i uh, i still, i dunno. i'll uh, i dunno. gotta consult my girlfriend, she knows more about that kinda stuff.

i'll post pics of the items as i acquire them. tomorrow im going to go looking for those plastic gold fish bowls. interestingly, they've been kinda hard to find as most places only have the glass ones. im going to go hunting more thoroughly tomorrow.

keeping in mind that nobodies preggers just yet!
 
jennifish120 said:
Check out this website. I found it while I was doing some research for the tank I am currently cycling. It has information on decapsulating the eggs and why it's important. Also, what will you be using the cotton wool for? And do you mean a blend of cotton and wool or what? Just curious.

http://www.seahorse.com/FAMA_-_Fres...rition_-_Feeding_&_Rearing_the_Fry_-_Part_IV/
Click to expand...

cotton wool? haha! i don't know! like i said, i tend to make things more complicated than they are... oh right, the cotton wool is supposed to be for the rotifer/bbs bottles, i just read it on some site. u take the soda bottle cut a hole thru the top for the airline. the end of the airline you attach rigid tubing. then you fill another hole with cotton wool (which im guessing is the same as cotton balls?) so the air can get out. that's my guess but your guess is as good as mine! haha.

the thing i get confused with is that some diy sites tell u to invert the bottle and hang it, others give instructions that dont require u to invert it. not sure exactly about that yet.

pump it up?
one other thing im starting to realize is that im gonna need like a million air pumps! or am i? seems like im gonna need an air pump for: rotifer cultures (2 bottles going at a time?), baby brine shrimp cultures (2 bottles going at a time), kriesel water movement (i think im planning on having two going at a time). can one pump do these all, with different air bubble rates? i really dont know much about air pumps since ive never done freshwater and their not common in reefing.
 
I have a formula called Ich Away that has methylne blue and formalin in it. Would this be acceptable for use with sh fry? And what is the purpose of its use? I haven't found info about it in my searches for info on raising sh fry. I have a tank that I will be setting up as a sh tank and I do plan on attempting to raise their fry so I am interested in any pertinent information. Thanks! Sorry if this is a bit repetative...celebrating tonight and a bit fired up! lol
 
Well I go for the simple way in almost everything I do, basically because I'm lazy and getting old.
Some people add formalin to fry tanks to handle parasites they've inherited from the adults.
I found for me at least, that the yields were lower so I no longer use it.
I wouldn't use Ich away on fry.
For information of fry rearing, there are a LOT of threads just in the stickies, and a lot more in older threads on the Propagation and Rearing forum on seahorse.org.
There are many different ways that have been used so you read them over and pick how you think you would like to try raising yours.
As for decapping, yes, most people either decapp or purchase decapped cysts from places like seahorsesource.com.
Many years ago when I started doing it, (before my seahorse days) The methods I used were more complicated.
Now, I use an inverted pop bottle with the bottom cut out and put 2 cups of tap water in it and add a heaping teaspoon of cysts.
After letting this sit for a half hour, I add an open ended airline (rigid air line tube) and aerate for one hour.
At the end of that hour, I add one half cup of bleach and continue aeration for exactly 7 minutes (timer).
I immediately take the bottle to the laundry tub and pour the cysts through a net I made with a 65 micron mesh bag and rinse under the cold water tap for a MINIMUM of four minutes to remove all traces of the bleach.
After rinsing the bottle and rigid air line tube, I replace the rinsed decapped cysts in the bottle and fill to about 3/4" from the top with salt water.
After 24 hours of aeration, I let sit for 5 minutes (they can suffocate if you let them go too long) and siphon off the nauplii and add to my rearing container for growout for anywhere between 2 days and adult.
Before using, I gut load with an appropriate enrichment before feeding them to the seahorses.
 
The bottles on the shelf are fry raising containers. I have 12 of them I can use.
In the picture, the bottles without green had just been cleaned and the phyto wasn't added yet.


19May.jpg
 
I have decapped my own brine. It is not difficult but I can never get it completely decapped like the decap brine that I have purchased. The real idea for me in decapping is to kill any bacteria and an added benefit is burning off the shells. Because I have so many tanks going, I have gone back to buying decap either from seahorsesource.com or from brineshrimp direct (depending on where I am ordering from at the time).

It really depends on the amount of time that I have. It's great that you are doing all of this research prior to having any fry but keep in mind that the minute you set everything up and put the fry in there, then you are going to find something you want to change so I would suggest not spending too much money on hatcheries, kreisiels...etc. Use the basics to start and then when you find something you want to upgrade then make the investment....

Here are a couple of pictures of what I have going on.. my brine set up, a couple of my adult reidi and the babies that I am currently raising.....
 

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rayjay said:
The bottles on the shelf are fry raising containers. I have 12 of them I can use.
In the picture, the bottles without green had just been cleaned and the phyto wasn't added yet.


19May.jpg
Click to expand...

haha! ray yer setup looks like a mad scientist frankenstein design! i love it! hope yer keeping up with yer health by the way.

we just dont have the space for that sort of design with your garbage buckets for the extra water volume. im living in a condo and all with 2 boston terriers, 3 fish tanks, and a ball python, its gettin kinda crowded!

heading out now to price a couple things....
 
Only what is on the shelf is used for raising the fry and with 12 bottles I can handle up to 1200 fry.
If I were to just raise a standard batch, I would only be using about 3 jars.
Those buckets are some of what I have to raise my brine shrimp in.
I grow them to adult and feed them to my seahorses and other fish, as well as supply other hobbyists with their needs.
I have 55g olive barrels that I age water in to remove chlorine, but I could use Cloram-X instead if I had a shortage of room.
 
rayjay said:
Only what is on the shelf is used for raising the fry and with 12 bottles I can handle up to 1200 fry.
If I were to just raise a standard batch, I would only be using about 3 jars.
Those buckets are some of what I have to raise my brine shrimp in.
I grow them to adult and feed them to my seahorses and other fish, as well as supply other hobbyists with their needs.
I have 55g olive barrels that I age water in to remove chlorine, but I could use Cloram-X instead if I had a shortage of room.
Click to expand...

hey ray, where'd u get the Cloram X? everywhere i ask they look at me like im trying to get ingredients to make a bomb!
 
I order my ClorAm-X from Andrè at Aquameric in Montreal.
I buy 5lb containers of it.
Some LFS's carry the liquid version of it.
It is similar to other dechlorinators/ammonia binders like Prime.
When I started using it, it was the ammonia binder of choice for many salt water fish shippers overseas.
Somewhere along the line I had been convinced it was the best one but I don't know where I found that info now.
If we end up getting together for other product, remind me and I can probably supply you some as I provide it to another in Mississauga for Kuda fry.
 
Peka said:
1. put airline along side of rounded fishbowls to create circular motion of water <-- Put a control on there so you can adjust the airflow. You want it going pretty quickly, and it will create a dead spot in the center where they will hang out.
Click to expand...

hi beth, how many aerator pumps do u use in your setup? can one pump do all this if i got a controller? is there a pump u can recommend or are they pretty much all the same?
 
In one individual set up I use one pump with a double outlet on it. I like the ones that they sell at petsmart (I think it's top fin brand) not the whisper. Although I do have a couple of the whispers too (they are not as quiet as they are supposed to be)... You can also use gang valves to split the flow if you want to use it in more tanks. you will also need a ball valve to control the flow of the air inside the kreisel. I normally put one in the side of the kreisel and then one in the tank outside of the kreisel.. I also use seeded sponge filters and a HOB filter with purigen in it.

Depending on how much you want to spend on airpumps, I also have several of these

http://www.fosterandsmithaquatics.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+3669+8120&pcatid=8120

I use them on fry tanks and most of my display tanks just in case there is a power outage....to me they are worth the investment
 
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