Return pump/drain flow help

[WestTexasReefer]

I am switching to a siphon system on my 180 with dual corner overflows that have 2-1" bulkheads in each and getting rid of the Durso's. Can't get enough flow and just too much noise. I believe I have the basics down which would be a siphon and emergency drain line in one overflow and a siphon and my return in the other overflow. I will be putting a gate valve under the stand on each siphon line would it matter if the gate valve is close to the bulkhead or closer to the sump? The main question is deciding on what size return pump I would need. With 1" bulkheads and 1" flex PVC what would be my drain capacity? The return pump would go thru a ball valve with 3/4" silicone tubing straight up about 54" and then split thru loc line so I am not sure how to figure out what the friction/head loss would be and how much water is actually coming from the pump. What size pump would I need and what brands would anyone recommend that would be reliable and quiet.

Thanks

 

[uncleof6]

You need 1 dry emergency, of equal or greater capacity than the siphon, for each siphon that you are running. This means the return must go up over the top of the tank.

1" bulkhead will flow a max of 1669gph, with a 24" drop, more if the drop is longer. 2 would give ~3300gph capacity. More than enough for a 300 gallon tank. Real world with net ~2400 gph, with a 24' drop, after friction losses, enough for a 240 gallon tank. Larger pipe on the same bulkheads will net higher flow capacity (less friction loss.)

The size of the pump you need is dependant on the flow rate you want, and the actual plumbing topology you build (friction loss and static head.) No one can answer that question; they can only guess based on insufficient information, and more than likely, it will be wrong. What size you need will be unique to your system, and your system only, and may or may not apply to the next system of the same size.

As far a brands I run reeflo, rlss, iwaki, and little giant. Which you actually have to choose from are based on the above.

 

[SGT_York]

Like Uncle said,

The gate valve placement won't significantly matter, place it where you can easily adjust it. How do you plan on running your drain pipes, that is a long way apart with the corner overflows?

As for your flow, 3/4" pipe will be way insufficient for flow. I'd use 1 1/4 or more diameter pipe. Also lockline is very handy and great stuff, but significantly adds to the friction loss so you will need 8 or more.

I'm a big fan of high sump turnover so I'd go no less than 2800 GPH on your pump (you certainly can go less) Reeflo super dart or so is a great pump. I'm thinking of a nice coral tank with medium to high flow rates.

 

[WestTexasReefer]

I don't have room to get behind tank to run returns over the top. Would this work: in one overflow have a siphon drain with an emergency overflow and the other side run a return line and keep the Durso as an open channel? The shorter drain run to the sump is where the issue is because about 75% of my water is returning thru that side. I can increase pipe size to 1" on my returns which would be no problem. I also am going to put float switches in my over flows attached to my Apex break out box which would shut off my return pumps as another failsafe.

 

[Sonicboom]

Hi, i did the exact same thing you are planning on the exact same tank. my right side has my full siphon draining straight down (no turns) to the sump with a gate valve (don't use ball valves) just above the sump. Next to it is the emergency. left side of tank has my return which is connected to a spray bar which reaches to the right overflow and a full siphon, again with a gate valve close to the sump. the other day i was cleaning out my overflows and with return running normal capacity i added a maxijet 1200 to push water from the DT to the overflow, it started filling until i gave the valve a turn and it handled every last drop until it started slurping, so i know it will handle 1200+ gph on one side.

I'm running a Speedwave DC 10k return on setting 4 of 6 and am happy with the flow, it sites on the left close the the left return and is plumbed with Ultraflex pvc and at the bulkhead and after it is all PVC. the rest of the turnover is done by a WP40 on one end and a pair of Tunze 6055's on the other.

if you use pipe thread tape on the plumbing you can make adjustments until you are satisfied and want to glue. honestly i think only the pipes going into the bulkheads are glued. plenty of pics on my build thread. definitely go bigger on the pipe, 1 1/4" down and 1/14" up.

 

[WestTexasReefer]

So you are running a siphon and emergency on one side and a siphon and return on the other side? I have 4 Vortechs in my tank for flow I just need to get the drains going into the sump quieted down. I changed out my sump and the only thing I really changed was the drain lines going from ribbed hose to flex pvc and it is now a straighter run. I was quiet before and now not so much. Wierd. I will check out your build thread.
thanks

 

[Sonicboom]

the key is to not let it blast into the sump or go beneath the water line, mine drains straight down and end about 1/2" above the water, then once the full siphon takes hold everything quiets down. you may have to cut the durso drain pipe down an inch or so if you did what i did and just yanked the top portion off. took me about a week to tweak everything but it is dead silent.

 

[WestTexasReefer]

Everything I have read on siphons says to have the drain go 1" below the water level in sump. I have been playing with what I have now and running the drain even slightly above water line it is loud with the sound of running water. So are you still using your Durso? If so how? I was thinking a siphon and emergency on one end and keep the Durso on one and see if that works since the "longer" run from bulkhead to sump is quiet.

 

[Sonicboom]

i am no longer using the durso on either side, i only kept the stand pipe for it and pulled the street el and everthing else off. It works for me with a gap between the water line and the down pipe. Im sure i tried it under water and changed it for some reason, maybe i will try it again and see what happens. I orignially did one side at a time but the Durso was all i heard once the other side was silent so i had to continue..

feel free to shoot me a pm and i'll give you my number if you want to call me

 

[WestTexasReefer]

Sounds good. So you are using the Durso with the elbow off as your emergency standpipe? That makes sense since you can adjust the height. I was concerned with 2 siphons and just 1 emergency overflow but the chances of both clogging I guess would be slim plus I am putting float valves in the overflows and will attach to my breakout box on my Apex to shut down the returns just in case so I don't flood the house. That would make my wife a very unhappy camper. I will go thru your build thread and if I have any more questions I will shoot you a PM. Thanks for the help.

 

[Sonicboom]

yes two drains and 1 siphon, i have closed one off completely and between the other and the emergency there is no flood. the only issue is the water level in the sump will drop a little because only one is siphoning and the other is a gurgling mess.