Return pump for 1200 gallon system

[DannyDJD]

Hello everyone,

I have been in the hobby for about a year and a half, and have quickly learned a good amount of knowledge in a short period of time thanks to the many experts on this forum as well as being lucky to have several experienced buddies. I currently have a 260 gallon system, but am taking the plunge and setting up a 1200 gallon system in a new home. It will be comprised of a 950 gallon display with another 250 gallon (approx) sump/refugium. I am in the process of searching for all the needed equipment, and narrowing down specific brands and models, and have come to a bit of a sticking point at the return pump. I've been of the notion that the turnover goal should be about 6x the display tank volume, for your pump. With that in mind, I narrowed down my choices to a few, including the W. Kim corp. Wave II 1/2 hp pump, which would give me approximately 6-6500gph after head pressure considerations. Yesterday, a very knowledgeable buddy of mine said that with a tank that size, I should actually aim to have a lower gph return pump, moreso in the 3500-5000(max) range. He stated that it would give the filtration equipment/system more contact time wth the water, and that turning over the display too quickly wouldn't be advantageous at all...

I wanted to ask what everyone here thought, as what he stated made some sense for sure, but seemed contrary to the "rule of thumb" of 6 times turnover that'd I'd been used to.

The help is appreciated!!!
Danny

 

[tidus10]

Hello everyone,

I wanted to ask what everyone here thought, as what he stated made some sense for sure, but seemed contrary to the "rule of thumb" of 6 times turnover that'd I'd been used to.

The help is appreciated!!!
Danny

ive never heard of this rule of thumb you speak of for 6x turn over.. if anything ive heard 10x and 20x but its all just numbers and preference.. having slower flow from the tank to sump is fine.. just make up the flow inside the tank depending on what you would like to keep in there.. obviously youre not going to turn the tank over 6,10 or 20x an hour if you have sea horses..

 

[dave.m]

You want movement in the display tank of 10x-20x tank volume. That is not the turnover rate of the return pump from the sump to the display. Your return pump does not need to turn over any more than the feed rate of your skimmer. The remainder is made up within the display tank, using either closed loop, powerheads, gyres, or a combination thereof.

Dave.M

 

[DannyDJD]

Thanks for the info. I have planned to aim towards 10-20 times flow rate within the display, in order to keep a mixed reef with 75% sps, but am glad I won't necessitate a larger return pump. I'm looking at using the oceans motions wave makers to "randomly" distribute some flow, but imagine that it will increase my head pressure substantially and decrease my pumps gph rating... Any particular pumps you guys recommend?

 

[hobbzz]

I'm not sure why everyone was thinking he was talking 20x turnover through the sump. He was pretty clear in that he was talking 6x through the sump. At least I thought he was pretty clear.

3-5x the display volume through the sump is considered normal. But if you're leaning towards 75% sps you'll likely want a lot more than 10-20x in the display.

How much head are you looking at?

 

[DannyDJD]

Thanks, yeah, I was attempting to distinguish between turnover through the sump vs. flow inside the actual display tank itself. I will aim to get more than 20x inside the display, and have been thinking about going the Gyre route actually. I have been waiting for the XF 170 model to be released, as I'm unsure if two 150's placed vertically on the end of the tank (it's a peninsula) can handle that sized tank. As far as head pressure, I'm unsure of the exact calculations, and am actually in the process of sketching all sorts of plumbing diagrams, but I speculate that it will be in the 15-18 foot range. Also, there are 7 return outlets which won't help the head pressure either...like I previously mentioned I am considering using oceans motions 4-ways to randomize flow, and am not sure how to factor the potential head loss with those...

Also, hobzz, I see you have a lifereef skimmer...how do you like it? I'm shopping for a massive skimmer and have only heard good things about lifereef. I'm seriously considering their 72" model for this tank. As of now, I was looking at the commercial nextreef's, and the My reef creations orca pro 3...and even though cost shouldn't be a major concern if I plan to run a tank this size, I also don't want to spend 3k on a skimmer that performs as well as one that's $1200.

Again, thanks for the advice everyone.

Danny

 

[jjk_reef00]

3500-5000 range sounds reasonable
I'm using 3000 now and wouldn't mind a little more but my overflow isn't designed to handle it.

I would make sure to use 2" plumbing on the returns and allow yourself for more if you want it. IMO for very large tanks the amount of sump flow really depends on the dimensions of your tank and how much surface skimming you want to do.
My next tank will have bean animal overflow and plenty of overflow area on the top of the tank.

There are controllable pumps you can look into. Also on a large tank it wouldn't be bad to have two return pumps to give you flexibility.

 

[DannyDJD]

Certainly adding a second pump will give flexibility and a backup should one pump fail. I like the idea and have been debating it for some time. My main concern at first with adding a second pump was surrounded by my idea that I would need a very large turnover through the sump, and whether my drains could handle that, but if I add, say, two 5000gph pumps, and then taking into account head loss, I let's say ended up with two 2500gph pumps, I get both security and options should I want to deviate something. Right now, the external overflow runs approximately 36" across the 48" end of the peninsula, and there are two 2" drains. I think drilling a third 2" drain is also an option should it be advantageous/needed. I was planning on using 2 inch piping for sure, I guess leading into 1-1.5" at the actual return outlets back into the display.

 

[hobbzz]

The two pumps should add up to the total flow you want. Not each one pushing the flow you're shooting for.

 

[Socaltoaz]

Are you going with DC controllable pumps? They are adjustable and use less power and less heat. Red Dragons and Abyzz are the ones that I have read about that seem to be best in class.

 

[DannyDJD]

I am definitely considering DC pumps for those same characteristics you were mentioning, and I've also heard very positive things about both brands. I was considering a reeflo pump as well, model dependent on the final gph requirements and head considerations. I've heard mostly solid things about that line, in both the energy-for-size arena, as well as their relatively low level of noise. At the end of the day, reliability and longevity is likely my biggest priority, although energy usage is probably 2nd or 3rd in line. Not too worried about noise as the pump(s) will be located in another "dedicated fish" room.

 

[scubadan206]

If you're not worried about price up front, the Abyzz is the way to go.