return pump question

[timrandlerv10]

so i forgot to buy a return pump...the 75 is set up, the baffles are cured in the 55 for the sump, and the rock/sand/heat/flow are all running.

i'm thinking that i need about 200-300 gph through the sump, so i need to be able to push 300 gph up about 6', and i'll have two 45 degree bends (to move the pipe out from under the stand to the back) and then two 90s to dump it back in the tank.

i've been looking at either a mag 7 or a quiet one 3000.

thoughts on sound, reliability, cost?


or alternate suggestions for pumps or return plumbing?

thanks,
tim

 

[Tomoko Schum]

I find mag drive pumps a bit noisy and it adds heat to water. I prefer Eheim over mag drive although Eheim is more expensive. Eheim is silent and very durable. I suppose that you are looking for an internal pump, right? Mag drive pumps don't last as long when used as an external pump.

Tomoko

 

[timrandlerv10]

yes, internal.

an eheim 1060 puts out 262 with those turns, height, etc.

a quiet one 300 is $40 plus shipping, an eheim 1060 is $159, and they are both putting out about the same flow (using reef central head loss calculator).

is there a more moderate middle ground? this will be in the stand, in the tank, (hopefully) underwater.

 

[teamreefers]

I just got a eheim 1260 and very pleased with it. Drs F & S has them for $119. They are rated at 635GPH. It should work out about right with your head loss. That didn't sound quite right but you know what I mean

Jack

 

[TOYTEK]

I have the quiet one 3000 pumping about 4'6" of vertical head. And its not noisy(All I can hear is my Durso unless I'm in the cabinet), but I have heard people say they are noisy some times. I debated getting it because of that, but I decided for the price I would risk it. Also the QO3000 pulls 40 watts where as the Eheim 1260 pulls 65W. Just be sure to put the rubber feet on it and don't let it touch any baffles or sides of the sump.

 

[timrandlerv10]

Any idea how many gallons per hour? What type of bends/unions/valves do you have on you return?

How long have you had it?

Thanks,
Tim

 

[NicoleC]

There are the older Quiet Ones and the newer ones. The newer ones are much better. I don't like the Mag pumps for reef applications; they just don't last and produce too much heat.

I've had 5000's and 6000's. They do hum a bit but aren't what I'd call noisy. Mine have always lasted a long time with minimal maintenance. And the 1" port on the Quiet One 3000's and up is MUCH better than the 1/2" on the Mags.

The Quiet One 3000 uses 50 watts for 780gph and the Eheim 1262 clocks in at 80 watts for 900gph. The Mag 7 says it uses 60 watts for 700 gph, but everyone I know that has measured them reports much higher power usage.

I haven't used the Eheims, but I believe parts availability is good. When I cracked the impeller on my Quiet One 5000 (my fault), I was unable to get the manufacturer to respond to repeated requests for part numbers and sources, which I did not appreciate!

 

[timrandlerv10]

i think i'm going to try the quiet one, although Danny, if you could give me an idea of real world flow, that would help seal the deal.

thoughts on how to go from sump to display with least plumbing loss? is there a best way to return the clean water? i was thinking about just dumping it right into a koralia to spray it all over the tank...

 

[TOYTEK]

Tim, I have 3' of 1" vinyl tubing from the pump to the bottom of the bulkhead and my return is 1" pvc painted black w/Krylon Fusion spray paint. about 18"+/- from bottom of tank to top of return a 90, a Tee w/ 3/4" threaded outlet about another foot of 1" pvc horizontally and a 90 on the end w/ 3/4" threaded out.
I have no way to measure flow, but the chart on the box and the calculator on the RC home page put it around 500 GPH.

 

[TOYTEK]

with the two outlets on my return, flow is soft. If I plug one outlet with my thumb, the other seems to be pretty strong. I'm guessing somewhere around 500GPH is probably about right. I like the flexible vinyl hose from pump to display. that 3' piece takes up the 2'6" vertical and about 20" horizontal distance from the pump to the bulkhead, and I'm sure reduces noise.
BTW I've been running the QO since mid-October.

 

[timrandlerv10]

I'm going to have to go over the top for the return...I don't know why I didnt drill it when it was dry...

Do many people drill their returns? is there a big benefit (besides the pipe being cleaner?)?

 

[NicoleC]

A closed manifold made of PVC will probably work best for you, but they ain't pretty. If you don't close it, the water pressure will be weaker at the farther outlets.

Don't forget the air hole to break the siphon...

 

[timrandlerv10]

siphon holes-roger.

closed manifold?

 

[Tomoko Schum]

Do you mean a type of spray bar or Anthony Calfo's manifold on a closed loop?

Tomoko

 

[NicoleC]

I've never seen one of his, but it's probably the same. Bring the return up the back of the tank with pvc, then make a long bar across the back of the tank with nozzles just under the water. Adjustable nozzles preferred.

The long bar will work, but if you make it a loop and go all the way around the tank the pressure in each nozzle will be more even.

 

[timrandlerv10]

...both of those sound elaborate, i was planning on just dumping the water in the tank!

i can see how, with a large pump, you could do away with any type of PH in the tank, but since i'm not organized that way, i was planning on just using two koralias (3) to creat my flow.

thoughts?


i expect my quiet one 3000 tomorrow, and we'll start water exchange then! i've got the tank heated w/flow now, and i'll run a filter sock on the overflow water for a few weeks just to catch any dust or some fine silt/sand that's coating the rocks.

 

[Tomoko Schum]

If you make the loop around the tank with a number of nozzles, you will need a much larger pump. Each 1/4 inch opening will require 200 gph unless reduced further with very small nozzles.

Tomoko

 

[8BALL_99]

Quiet one pumps are ok. I've got a few of them. But I only use them now to either mix salt or in our pond. They aren't really quiet. Its like calling a Hum-V a Gas saver. I would have got the Eheim, much better pump. Low wattage, low heat quiet and will last forever. If it doesn't almost any online store sells replacement parts. If you knotice most all the CA reactors and alot of the high end skimmers use Eheims!

I would either Y the outlet or just have a single outlet into the tank.. Depends on how much flow you get. I wouldn't rely on your return for flow anyway. Sure it helps, but you should have enough power heads or a closed loop to keep the tank happy without your return even on.

Will

 

[NicoleC]

True, but IME it wasn't any worse than those "U" brackets you hang on the back of the tank. For one thing, I didn't use little nozzles, I used the black flexible loc line sans nozzles.

And much easier to manage since the "U" doohickies ended up sliding all over the place and twisting around.

Honestly, it isn't elaborate at all unless you get wild and start adding flow control valves and stuff -- overkill for a 75g. It's also easy to modify later by adding nozzles. And with a larger pump, you can skip powerheads altogether, eliminating the unsightliness and reducing pump maintenance tasks. (Although I always kept one powerhead in the tank on a backup battery for emergency outages.)

However, for any kind of return flow I STRONGLY suggest a good shut off valve on both sides of the pump. You will have to remove that pump occasionally for cleaning and draining your sump to do it is not a fun task.