return pump

[reef_dude76]

I am building a 180 gallon sps and clam reef, and am currently working on the plumbing. I originally puchased a sequence dart for use as a return pump from my sump. Recently, I have begun wondering if this pump is too large to run as a return pump. I setup a 58 gallon about 1.5 months ago, and had to down size the pump due it being oversized and blowing a large amount of microbubbles into the display tank. I think the dart my be a repeat of that mistake, and I my ultimatley end up needing to downsize it.

I am posting this now as I have reached the point where making this change won't be a pain now, but potentially will be later as all my plumbing is dry fit at the moment, but if I glue everything and the pump does prove to be oversized, then I will have to rip everything out and start over as a smaller pump will likely have a smaller input and output. I am thinking of going ahead and downsizing now, and using the dart to plumb a closed loop instead.

Anyone have any recommendations?

 

[reef_dude76]

Any ideas at all?

 

[d4a2n0k]

I agree, that pump is way too much to use for a return. It pumps 3600 GPH right? I would look to run about 800-1000 GPH through the sump on a 180. Theres no need for such a large return pump.

 

[integlikewhoa]

Yup dart is way to big for return. I have seen it done on someones tank that didnt know what a closed loop was and didnt want power heads. LOL boy was that funny. The DART is perfect for a closed loop. I have one with an oceansmotions on my 120. I run a mag 12 for my return. I even run that threw a UV filter. Probley only getting around 7-800 actual GPH from that. It works good. I dont mind going a lil bigger then that if you sump is setup for it but not much more. I have a custom 50g sump and i put the baffles to close in order to make bigger sections. Because of that i would have micro bubble problems with a pump any bigger then i already have.
The more flow you have threw your sump the more noise its going to make to along with the micro bubble problem. If your sump is really big and has a big space between baffles you can get away with haveing larger pump then i have but i dont really see a reason to force so much water threw there.

 

[reef_dude76]

Well, the original advice I got here on RC was that the Dart would be a perfect return pump, and all I needed to do was install a gate valve on the output side of the pump to decrease the flow down to what I needed. I went ahead a bought one, but the more I have thought about those statements, the more they make no logical sense to me. What spent the money to buy a pump that is loo large, only to choke off its return to get the flow back down to where you want it.

 

[d4a2n0k]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6566084#post6566084 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by reef_dude76
What spent the money to buy a pump that is loo large, only to choke off its return to get the flow back down to where you want it.

Exactly. At least you can use it for your closed loop so all is not wasted. Its fine to throttle back pumps but when you throttle them back by 2/3 speed its just not worth it. You are creating extra heat and using more electricity then if you just use a smaller pump to begin with.

 

[reef_dude76]

Any recs for a good and quiet return pump?

 

[jnc914]

Reef-dude:
I was told the same thing about how the Dart would be appropriate for my 180 gallon AGA with corner overflows. After researching it, even with it throttled back, and at 5 ft of head, the flow was way too much. I instead went with a Pan-World 100PX-X which is rated at 1270GPH, although it is not pressure rated. It should do the trick. I wanted to run 800-1100 GPH through my entire system. Check either the Pan-world pumps or the Velocity T4.


Jason

 

[mille239]

check out blueline pumps.. (champion lighting) similar to iwaki in build and reputation...

 

[conda]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6566161#post6566161 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by reef_dude76
Any recs for a good and quiet return pump?

I'm running two Mag18 pumps and a Barracuda. I cannot hear the Mags at all, maybe a slight humm is about it.

 

[integlikewhoa]

I have mags too but i wouldnt buy them again. Look at the amount of electricity a mag 18 uses and the flow. The dart uses 160w and pumps 2820 GPH @ 4ft of head pressure. The MAG 18 uses 145w and pumps 1375 GPH @ 4ft of head pressure. Half the flow rate at the same amount electricy. Mags also brake shafts and props and put alot of heat into your tank.
Like i said i use 2 mags in my tank now, but i would easly leave them out for a external pump next time around. I also have temp problems here in CALI. I had to get a chiller and it cost 75.00-100.00 month to run.

I agree with jnc914 for pumps. Some smaller external pumps. there is nothing else your going to run off you return pump? Chiller, media chamber, UV light, Skimmer or anythign along those lines? You could go with a bigger pump and use it run other things so you not useing 4 pumps like i am.

 

[PRC]

It all really depends on how your system is plumbed, but unless you have some pretty serious overflow plumbing (like 2" tubing) I don't think you'll ever get the 2,000+ GPH into your sump so you'd have to throttle the Dart back to match whatever your overflow will provide otherwise it will empty your sump in short order.
I have a spare Iwaki 55 if you want to trade. PM me if you're interested.

 

[integlikewhoa]

not only the plumming but the size of the overflow box. the one i saw was 1ft x 1ft. and was 2.25 inch piping. And the noise and bubbles in the sump was crazy. Salt creap everywhere. Hold onto your DART reef dude for your closed loop.

 

[reef_dude76]

Well, based on the suggestions here, what I am thinking about doing now is replacing the dart with a blueline 55 for the return pump and only plumb it to one of the overflow boxes. I have two overflow boxes in the 180 (each with two holes in the bottom)and initailly I was going to plumb two drains to the sump and two return lines from the sump.

Now what I may do is plumb one return line from the sump to one overflow, and instead of plumbing the second return line in the second overflow box, use that bulkhead to run a return line from the dart (functioning as a closed loop pump) to an oceansmotions 4 way sitting at the top of the overflow box, and then run the rest of my closed loop plumbing to the tank from the 4 way.

Essentially, there would be two drains to the sump, one return line from the sump running through one overflow box, and a return line from the closed loop pump passing through the overflow box and terminating into a 4way at the top of the overflow with the plumbing from the 4 way back to the tank.

 

[integlikewhoa]

Its a good way to hide the pluming i guess. I guess you wouldnt need it but i would think you would have better surface skimming if you used both. I only have one overflow so hard for me to say. but i dont think it would be good to leave sitting water in that section. Maybe someone else can help you out in that department.

 

[reef_dude76]

The drains of both overflow boxes would be plumbed and used to skim surface water. The return bulkhead of one overflow would be plumbed as a return from the sump, and the return bulkhead of the second overflow box would be plumbed as a return for the closed loop.

Essentially, the purpose of the sump is to get dirty water to the skimmer and allow contact time for waste removal. In my case I will have a refugium also so this will allow more contact time for nutrient export in the macroalgae. Really, you only need one line back to the tank for the sump anyway in order to fill the tank and cause the water level to rise and spill over the tops of the overflow boxes. Who cares how much flow goes through the sump as long as skimming is accomplished, detritus is not allowed to settle, ans the refugium has enough conact time to do its job. The water movement or circulation will be accomplished by the closed loop.

 

[coryherby]

I can't remember what pump i settled on. I went with a little giant 4? originally but I found the external fan on it was way too loud. I got a similar size pump but with no fan and like it a lot. It may be a bit underpowered for my likes but I have a hammerhead for a closed loop so flow isn't an issue.

 

[PRC]

I've only got one overflow in my 220 which has 6' x 2' surface so I don't think that should be a problem. I wonder if you'll have an issue of competing overflows though. The overflow running the Dart closed loop will be passing a lot more water and it will be pumping it right back into the tank rather than past the skimmer. I'd probably try to figure out a way to supply the closed loop without using surface skimmed water. Actually, I just removed two closed loops and replaced them with Seio's. Way, way more efficient. Saves me over $20/mo in electric bills. Depending on the size of the passages through the OM it could cut back the flow on that Dart significantly also.

 

[integlikewhoa]

Hey reef dude. I understand u now. I thought you were going to use the bulkhead for the drain to run the pipe up threw that. How big is the return bulkhed in the overflows? Actally how big the both bulkheads in the overflows?

 

[reef_dude76]

The bulkheads are 1.5 inch for the drains to the sump and 1 inch for return line back to the tank. The plan is to plumb 1.5 inch PVC for the return line from the sump pump to the bulkhead fitting at the bottom of the first overflow, and then 1 inch thinwalled PVC from the bulkhead back to the tank.

Then 1.5 inch pvc will be plumbed to the output of the dart and run to the 1 inch bulkhead fitting at the bottom of the second overflow. 1.5 inch pvc will be plumbed from the bulkhead fitting to the input of an oceans motions 4 way and then 1 inch pvc back to the tank. I realize this creates a flow restriction by passing through a 1 inch bulkhead, but by plumbing the line straight up from the dart to the bulkhead with no elbows, and using 1.5 inch pvc on both sides, I am hoping this will improve flow. Especially since the dart pumps over 3000 gph.