Returning to Forum, looking to start a 40g FOWLR

[bennyhanna1]

Well I saw that it had been about 5 years since I was on these forums. In 2012, I was starting to gather some materials for a 40 gallon tank, then we bought a house, got a dog, had a daughter, etc. and the the project was pushed to the bottom of the list. We're hitting a comfortable stride right now and I'm confident that I have the time and energy to maintain a tank again. I've re-read some of my previous posts so as to not ask the same questions again. I tend to be a 'paralysis by analysis' kind of person, so I decided I want to keep things simple this time around and to jump in to saltwater after years of fresh water tanks.

So, here is what I'm looking to do:
- 40 gallon breeder
- FOWLR
- Beginner Fish, and not many. I would be satisfied with 2 clowns, or a couple of dart fish/fire fish
- I don't have any current aspirations to embark on coral at this time, I would like to get the hang of maintaining a saltwater tank for a couple years first

My immediate question is regarding filtration:
- For this size of a tank, with a smaller fish load on the system, should I just go simple and do a canister set up, or is it worth the extra step to do an overflow, sump, skimmer/turf scrubber system? I do like the idea of having all the 'mechanicals' out of sight, and the increased water volume certainly helps, but again, if it's overkill for my desired tank, I'd like to know!

Glad to be back, and looking forward to getting this project going! Thanks for input!

Ben

 

[BigBlueTang]

Well I saw that it had been about 5 years since I was on these forums. In 2012, I was starting to gather some materials for a 40 gallon tank, then we bought a house, got a dog, had a daughter, etc. and the the project was pushed to the bottom of the list. We're hitting a comfortable stride right now and I'm confident that I have the time and energy to maintain a tank again. I've re-read some of my previous posts so as to not ask the same questions again. I tend to be a 'paralysis by analysis' kind of person, so I decided I want to keep things simple this time around and to jump in to saltwater after years of fresh water tanks.

So, here is what I'm looking to do:
- 40 gallon breeder
- FOWLR
- Beginner Fish, and not many. I would be satisfied with 2 clowns, or a couple of dart fish/fire fish
- I don't have any current aspirations to embark on coral at this time, I would like to get the hang of maintaining a saltwater tank for a couple years first

My immediate question is regarding filtration:
- For this size of a tank, with a smaller fish load on the system, should I just go simple and do a canister set up, or is it worth the extra step to do an overflow, sump, skimmer/turf scrubber system? I do like the idea of having all the 'mechanicals' out of sight, and the increased water volume certainly helps, but again, if it's overkill for my desired tank, I'd like to know!

Glad to be back, and looking forward to getting this project going! Thanks for input!

Ben

First off, welcome back Ben!!!
A 40g breeder is a great size to start with, and I'm happy about the minimal fish load, as it's quite hard to convince people to keep few fish in their tanks.

Going to your main question, I will always recommend having a sump. The ease of access, and the increased water volume like you said is awesome. However, I see where you're coming from. I started my tank with the same idea.. However after a little while I started to want corals, and now I am very glad I planned to be able to have some. If I were you, I would 100% have a sump. Canister filters are out of date for saltwater, and require almost constant cleaning in a saltwater aquarium. If you don't really want the hassle of setting up a sump, you can easily do without one. A HOB skimmer would certainly make your life easier with less water changes. Overall, I would do a sump, but it's not make or break. I definitely wouldn't call it overkill, as the ability to add more equipment if you ever want to increase your fish load or add coral is invaluable.

Please ask any more questions you have
(Or if that was just a mash of thoughts and you need more explanation, don't hesitate to ask :lmao: )

 

[ericarenee]

Its always best to have a sump with a Reef, even fowlr tank in my opinion because you can tuck all your equipment away nice and neatly, You can how ever do it with no issues at all with a Hang on back or Canister filter.. My Preference would be to recommend you to use a HOB Filter.You do not need one with a Bio-wheel.All its for is a place to house mechanical Filtration Such as filter pad. Chemical filtration like Active Carbon and keep them out of the display, Canister filters tend to get neglected because of the Tear down and cleaning required vs Hang on Back you just pull out and replace the media..
You can actually do away with having either of them. Using Proper Reg routine maintenance and Reliable RO/DI Water and water changes .
Just be sure you have enough wave pumps.. i would say several smaller ones instead of one big one. This is a common mistake made in smaller tanks. Have plenty of Live rock to maintain your bio- filtration and your set.

My two cents Welcome Back and Good Luck..

 

[bennyhanna1]

Thanks for the feedback guys. I think I'll go with a 20 gallon sump, following the traditional, tried and true designs. I think it will make maintenance a little easier based on where the tank will be situated. I'll probably design the stand with extra space underneath for a QT tank and top off reservoir (eventually). I think, like you guys do, it will make the DT sleeker and cleaner without all the heaters, pumps, etc.

Does the re-circulation/water flow rates matter as much? When I was first researching, I think I had settled on 10x the DT for water movement, via 2 return lines from the sump. Is it safer to have 2 return pumps in case one fails?

Thanks all, not sure when I will embark on building the stand, and gathering the glass panels for the sump and overflow, but I'm getting excited to get going!

 

[ericarenee]

THE 10X turn over rate can also include your wave/ power head pump circulation...

Here is a example
I have 400 gallons in my main system and with a 1400 gph return rate... but i also have 4 1500 gph circulation pumps inside the display .


I KEEP Two return pumps one running and one sitting . i change them out every 6 months and soak / clean the one that was in use.. When i was running the reeflo pump i just had the one..

Return pumps are very reliable

 

[BigBlueTang]

Return pumps are very reliable

I agree with everything Erica said except this, as you can get screwed over if you don't choose a good return. The Jebao D.C. series is powerful and cheap but the downside is that they're really unreliable, which is obviously not wanted. You get what you pay for
Now I'm not saying go out and get a Royal Exclusive Red Dragon pump but an Eheim would be good, and you want to splurge a little bit with the really important bits

Going back to your question, flow really isn't a big deal in a FO but you want around 20x turnover with power heads IMO




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[domb54]

Personally I would do a hang on the back filter 2 gen 3 koralia pumps on a WaveMaker and rodi of course and heater with temp controller and your set for fowlr. Bi-weekly water changes of approx 10 gallons. Cycle the tank properly or the tank will have issues and add fish slowly. This is a cheap way to do it but effective imo of course. I'm actually doing the same but full reef with this exact list and photon v2 24" for 350 more when you get interested. Having a sump is easier for hiding equipment and creates great oxygenation but on a 40 your water changes will be plenty.

 

[AlSimmons]

Being that setting up a sump is pretty easy to do and this will be a FOWLR tank, (at first) I would just rely on the rock to be your primary biological filter and run things like a sponge, GAC or GFO in a HOB filter if needed. Basically just treat the tank the same way you would a freshwater tank. Once every two weeks, three weeks etc, (your choice) just stir up or vacuum the sand bed and blast the rocks with a powerhead. You want to try and remove as much detritus as you can during these water changes. Use something like a Mag-Float to clean the glass and you should be set IMO. It's amazing what a little elbow grease can accomplish sometimes.

 

[Goatonfly]

Could you drill tank and plug if you wanted a sump later? And then just run HOB skimmer for now?

 

[bennyhanna1]

I just wrote out a long reply, then apparently I was idle to long and it didn't submit... bummer.

I appreciate everyone's thoughts and your time in replying. Knowing my personality, and the fun in designing and building things, I'll take the extra time to do a sump. I think it will help future proof the set-up as well. The thank is going to be in sort of a funny spot where it will pretty much only have access from the front, so I think the sump will make that easier as well. I'm thankful for everyone's encouragement, since I was often told how challenging SW is, which is why I've always stuck to freshwater.

I already own the glass drill bits, some bulk heads, ball valves, and various other plumbing pieces, so I might as well use them. I had purchased some dry/base rock awhile back too. So my next steps are to start designing a stand, wait for the petco $/gallon and pick up a sump and QT tank.

Thanks again for everyone's input!

 

[bennyhanna1]

I'm thinking about the sump layout, I'm planning to use a 20g L for now, but it depends on how many chambers I decide to go with.

Simple Design (15g maybe)
- drain lines into skimmer chamber > Bubble Trap > Return chamber
- saves room under tank for ease of maintenance and future projects (ATO, Fuge, etc.)
- keeps me on my simpler approach

Future Proof Design (20g L)
- Drain line to skimmer > Bubble Trap > Return chamber > Chamber for Fuge
- I've read mixed things about the flow rate through a fuge, so I would plumb off the return, instead of putting the fuge in the middle of the sump
- in the short term, I could put the baffle separating the fuge from the return a bit higher, and not plumb it, so it would be dry until I'm ready to plumb it in


Ultimately, I think the deciding factor is how necessary a fuge would be to my FOWLR system. I could always plumb in an external fuge later on if necessary...