RO units brands

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6647021#post6647021 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by sidjam
fishman, have you tested your TDS before your di? that is the real indicator of how good your unit is working. with any membrane over 75gpd you are only going to get 90% rejection rate. yes your TDS may be 0 after the di, but your resin isn't going to last as long as the typhoon which uses the filmtec 75gpd membranes. which will end up costing you more in the long run.

Exactly-- The DI stage gives you 0. The RO determines how long the resin will last-- a 98% rejection RO membrane will make your DI resin last twice as long as a 96% one... 5X longer then a 90% one...

AZDessert rat is the authority on RO/DI on this board IMHO...

Initial costs isn't the only part of an RO/DI unit... the cost to run it should also be factored in...

THe Filter direct one may be fine for some people.... if you have high TDS raw water like me (Well water), you would burn through DI resin real fast with that unit....

THe Typhoon III is an excellent value for all it includes...

I run a spectrapure (only because I got it used for a great price)... if buying a new unit I'd get the Typhoon III--- an excellent unit and that company has great customer service (I bought refillable DI resin cartridges from them).

My RO/DI...

Source--TDS
Raw-- 411 ppm
RO- 8 ppm
DI- 0 ppm
 
I picked up a Ebay unit used (guy said 800 gallons has gone through it) the other day for 40 bucks. It came with a float valve and I paid 10 dollars for a TDS meter. The tap water going in is ~70, and the exit water comes out to 7. The DI looks like it needs to be changed. I am going to order a filter kit from airwaterice, and a bag of DI resin from buckeyefieldsupply. I imagine that with the new Filmtec filters and fresh DI I will easily get 0tds.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6647252#post6647252 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by 6Speed
I picked up a Ebay unit used (guy said 800 gallons has gone through it) the other day for 40 bucks. It came with a float valve and I paid 10 dollars for a TDS meter. The tap water going in is ~70, and the exit water comes out to 7. The DI looks like it needs to be changed. I am going to order a filter kit from airwaterice, and a bag of DI resin from buckeyefieldsupply. I imagine that with the new Filmtec filters and fresh DI I will easily get 0tds.

Looks like you DI is all gone and that is a 90% rejection unit-- but realize since your raw water TDS is so low, you are in a better DI postion then me (my RO is 8 ppm since my Raw is over 400 PPM)...

My point is it will take you longer to recoup the cost of a new(better) RO membrane if your raw water has a lower TDS-- the break even point will take you longer to hit.

I want to say I saw that AZDessertRat wrote his raw water was over 600 ppm....
 
Personally I think spending 300+ on an Ro/Di unit is outragous the Typhoon III is a bit more reasonable but Dr. Macs is just overkill unless your really keeping some advanced corals.

I've seen some guys here in florida use dechlorinated tapwater in there systems without problems, would I do it, heck no. I'm in the market for a system as well. I've seen alot of people buying the 99.00 ebay special and rave about it. Which I'm sure it works fine

I mean if your an average aquarist with a 20 gallon Nano that ebay special isn't a bad deal. I'm sure it would last you a fairly long time between resin and filter changes

But if your upwards 100-200g+ tank then yes you may want to invest in a more expensive more efficient setup, because your using substantially larger amounts of water so a more efficient system would be justified.

0 tds is 0 tds isn't it..some systems are just overkill but if you have the money by all means..


http://melevsreef.com/ro_di.html

149.00 and you've all seen his tanks
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6643747#post6643747 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by fishman805
Tell you what, You drop the bucks into your RO/Di and I'll take the extra bucks I saved into putting corals into my tank .... Throwing money at something does not make it better... I'm running 1500gal/hour Seios ( at $70/ unit ) in my tank as apposed to $200+ Tunzes.. Is one better than the other..?? Well that's open to debate. But I submit to you that I can replace my Seios three times over to one set of Tunzes... And my Seios have been running just fine for over 6 months ( and counting )...

Point is: It is not always "brand name" that matters ..... I've got three tanks running just fine using my philosyphy on saving money.... You don't believe me?? Check out the threads on the Coralife skimmers.....:)

Bob
Don't mean to but in on the topic, but I think your missing the point!!!!! I understand where your coming at about buying just because of name or brand, but look at the ebay models and ask the seller what is the rejection rate of the membranes on the units he's selling......That 100gpd system is junk the rejection rate is very poor and again like said nothing adds up or even comes close to the Dow FilmTec membranes......That's what's making the difference in the RO units.........AirWaterIce!!!!!!
 
I Found Out The Unit Is A Unit The Big Diff Is In The Filters SO If You Get A Cheaper Unit And Upgrade The Filters You Can Save Some Money Ther Are Units On Ebay For $59 And They Give Out Great TDS Readings Even get 0 Readings
 
When I made water last week my 75 GPD Dow Filmtec RO membrane was producing a TDS of 8 with a raw water TDS of 623. Of course DI is 0 and stays that way for a little over 200 gallons even when my raw TDS is around 800 and my RO is 13. TDS I would challenge the e-bay vendors to produce that with their units. And that is with a membrane that is 2 years old and has produced untold amounts of water as it is used for drinking, ice maker, pet watering and aquarium use.
 
All the ebay guys have to do is buy the better filters once the cheapers ones are exhausted. They've still spent less than the more expensive units, and are going to get the same exact tds reading for the same amount of time once they switch to the filmtec filters.
 
No, they won't. They are still stuck with an inferior DI system which holds less, has a lousy flow pattern and does not promote even usage of the DI resin. There is a difference. If you take a vertical column filled with 24 oz of resin and flow water from the bottom up to the top all resin comes into contact with the water.
If you take a hollow tube, lay it on its side and put 6 oz of resin in it water takes the path of least resistance and hugs the bottom never coming into contact with lots of the resin and you get air pockets on the top. This is especially true if your outlet is wide open and the tube never fills all the way up to the top. Again there is a difference.
So take a $100 e-bay unit, add the cost of a TDS meter $20 to $25, pressure gauge $8 to $12, standard size vertical 10" refillable canister and cartridge $45 to $58 and in some cases an autoshutoff which some don't come with $10, you now have MORE invested than if you bought the Typhoon III @ $199 to begin with.
I don't understand what people are not getting here?
 
Well Im in the market for a new ro/di. I was very close to buying an ebay filter direct, but I think this thread has changed my mind. I didnt know a whole lot about the difference between ro units before, I just figured 0 tds was 0 no matter how you got their. I also knew dow membranes were better. But thinking about it, the extra $70-100 ( - the price of tds meter, pressure, ect so its even less) will eventually be saved by replacing di less, and I assume the same with the other stages. Do the carbons hold up longer? How much can you normally get one for shipped? Whats the cheapest place to buy? Also I see a few people getting angry here...Everyone has a right to their own opinion and both sides have valid arguements. This is a place to share conficting veiws.
Steve

PS i beleive GA has great water all around. I havent tested mine, but have heard many reports of under 100tds.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6649454#post6649454 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by 6Speed
All the ebay guys have to do is buy the better filters once the cheapers ones are exhausted. They've still spent less than the more expensive units, and are going to get the same exact tds reading for the same amount of time once they switch to the filmtec filters.

Yeah, I think AZ knows my take on this whole thing too. I understand the value of getting all the extras, but most people who just want basic, pure water for their tanks do not want the bells and whistles.... if they did, it'd be a good value, I agree with that. And I'm sure some of the eBay units have variation in quality of membranes. But what I say and continue to say is... my unit produces 0 TDS water, and has for the past 7 months. When it stops doing so, the $90 I spent on it I think was still well worth it, plus I don't have to go through the hassle of changing cartridges, I will buy another unit. Sure, if you wanted to go state-of-the-art, the Typhoon units are no doubt top notch... but why push everyone to it? Not everyone wants a Lexus, some of us are happy with a used Toyota that gets us from point A to point B. Especially newbies who don't have the disposable income to shell out around $200 at once for one, even if it lasts longer. Hell, half of them are already intimidated by the idea of getting RO/DI to begin with, and waste their money buying Walmart or LFS water.
 
I have also seen other posts on the great quality of water in the Atlanta area. Consider yourself lucky, lots of us in the Southwest have to put up with Colorado and Salt River waters that you can cut with a knife!
One thing you are overlooking is that with the better filter quality you get longer life from the carbons, membrane and DI portions so they last much longer. You should not have to replace a membrane for at least 3 years with normal usage and DI resin refills can last 4 or 5 times longer with the good membrane. The cost evens out very quickly. Also having the TDS meter is almost a must if you care anything at all about your reef tanks. How eles are you going to know what your water condition is?
Most of us are in this hobby for the long run so we try to make the right investment the first time. How many times did you purchase things like the Seaclone, Power Sweep powerhead, wet/dry, undergravel filter plates and others only to have to replace them in short order because they were not the deal we though they were? I have been down that road more than once and don't care to see others follow the same path. If saving money on a RO/DI is what you want at least get something with a good membrane and housings to begin with. I suggest places like www.airwaterice.com , www.buckeyefieldsupply.com or www.purelyh2o.com . They all offer less expensive units than the Typhoon III but still use high quality components. But remember by the time you finish upgrading to a refillable DI, getting the TDS meter and other components you will have spent more money than with the Typhoon III.

If I wanted state of the art and didn't mind spending the money I would purchase nothing but www.spectrapure.com all the way. But you pay for the quality and hand testing they do and for me its not worth the extra.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6650407#post6650407 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by scuba_steve1
Thats also very true, and what kind of tds do they get in those? Well water is probally better!:lol:

Walmart uses Culligan's service, and I heard someone called and was informed that the servicing standard was just to keep it under 50 TDS. Whatever it is, it is probably a lower standard than most of us will accept!
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6650480#post6650480 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by AZDesertRat
Most of us are in this hobby for the long run so we try to make the right investment the first time. How many times did you purchase things like the Seaclone, Power Sweep powerhead, wet/dry, undergravel filter plates and others only to have to replace them in short order because they were not the deal we though they were? I have been down that road more than once and don't care to see others follow the same path.

Sorry to just quote part of your post but your comment on the power sweeps just really got me:) I've also been down that road and have two powersweep powerheads that are sitting in a bucket waiting to go out into the trash bin.... Man what a waste of money.... Now that tank runs MaxJets ( which have always been a good buy IMO ) with hydor deflectors running on them.... I'd also started out with a wet/dry filter ( now converted into a sump/fuge )..... But the RO/DI unit that I'm still running with is the eBay unit that I got for less than $100 and if memory serves, had a Dow DI membrane as one of the filters... I will have to get some updated TDS readings to see how it's working .... I do go through alot of water with three tanks running....

Bob
 
Well...

Well...

Im going to step in here and say a few things if you guys dont mind my input :)

Lets start with the issue of pressure not making any difference in the quality of the output water.

In most cases this would be true, But not with an RO membrane.
To give you some insight, After a few threads here I decided to get my hands on a few of these so called 125, 150 gpd membranes and I think you will be interested to hear the results. For starters in order for this membrane to even come close to a decent production rate and even in the ball park of good rejection rates I have had to supply these membranes with a pressure exceeding 75 gpd and believe it or not to get the membrane to achieve the so called gpd ratings that they were labeled for I had to increase the input pressure to the range of 90psi and above on average. Out of five of these after market membranes I ordered not one performed correctly under municipal pressures. Now as a defense to the folks selling these membranes I will tell yu that the supliers of these membranes promise you the world and swear that they are as good if not better than the brands we have grown to know and trust. Now this leads me to another question, If these membranes are not performing correctly under standard tests such as TDS rejection and production, where else are they falling short. I keep hearing this defense that If Im getting 0 TDS Im getting zero TDS. NO!...lol, The fact is that the TDS meter only measures things that are conductive and frankly the main concerns that we have in this hobby are not conductive and will not show up on a TDS meter. We have a good track record with proven brands of membranes that it is assumed that these things are removed based on reliable testing and long term use to back it up. You guys seriously need to be aware that there are new low budget companies producing membranes now that are cheaper and NOT TESTED or proven and based on my results in testing them they will never be proven. If you take any advice from this thread please take this. Stick to the brands that we know work, Dow, Osmonics,WATTS, even Applied membranes is tested and has been in the game for a while. THe reason the ebay units are so cheap is because they ARE cheap. Now I must also say that there are companies out there who stay within the rules on Ebay so you need to do your homework. Ilike the statement made about upgrading the filters to a degree but The problem is that these systems are not and were never intended to be reef safe or used in a life sustaining environment such as an aquarium and not one single component on these systems has been approved for human consumption. Am I saying dont buy from Ebay? No, I sell on Ebay too, It is a great advertising resource and I do not fall into the giveaway pattern. I do good because most people know that you really do get what you pay for :). 150gpd, 125gpd? Never heard of it until recently and based on personal experience IM not impressed. At all, Please also remember that a system built wrong using bad components can cause more problems in the long run because they are allowing things into the water that can and will in the future due to absorption into the rock and sand bed come back to haunt you depending on what is in your water. Another problem is that I have noticed many of these systems are using brass parts after the membrane which will leach metalics into your system. Im getting a little long winded and touching on every single issue would be extremely time consuming so if anyone has any questions regarding direct issues and comparisons please feel free to ask and I will answer the best that I can.
Have a great night all!


Bryan Crenshaw
 
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