Rock "Cooking"--a dangerous trend or something worthwhile?
- Thread starter finneganswake
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finneganswake
In Memoriam
Yeah, everyone should listen to a guy who had a tank with more algae than coral in it:lol:
What makes you such an expert? Oh yeah, you have lots of posts! That may work for some people, but, to use a cliched phrase, "The proof is in the pudding" and your pudding is the inablility to keep your tank clean without resorting to desparate, stop-gap measures.
MiddletonMark
Premium Member
Perhaps you can answer what the big deal is with Nitrates?
Corals can handle small levels of them, in minor levels they don't really harm much livestock.
In fact, they're needed by corals/life in levels many times what is needed for P. [Isn't the Redfield ration 106C : 16N: 1P? ... suggesting you need 16x the amount of Nitrogen compared to P.
Can you explain to me why Phosphate doesn't matter if it's controlled, but you want to keep ultra-low Nitrogen levels [when N is so much more in demand compared to P]?
Answer me this, and we'll talk about the Phosphate boogeyman. But first you need to demonstrate why Nitrate is such a huge issue if you want to challenge focus on Phosphate.
[they didn't do a county-wide ban on Nitrogen in fertilizers here, just Phosphate. I suppose those limnologists must be reading RC, as they're overly focused on Phosphate
]finneganswake
In Memoriam
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6659497#post6659497 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by SeanT
I find you funny.
My tank has been algae free for years and I love it.
Funnily enough...I don't see any full tanks pics from you.
Well, you really stretch the term "years" given the date stamps on the posts I've seen with your algae pit in them.
BTW, weren't you one of the people who claimed I couldn't raise coral because I didn't have any pictures posted? Well, I posted pictures and now you have to one-up it. Looks like you're up to your same lame old tricks--"This guy has a life outside of RC, he must not know anything!!!":lol:
Boat Racer
New member
I would be intrested to read more about his tank,parameters,water he uses for changes,amount of and what kind of snails he has, etc.It appears as if there is some very nice coraline on his rocks too.I wonder how that got there if cooking kills everything?Oh and what was his cooking procces?I see about five fish one of wich is a pretty big tang and he also is feeding them something to graze on with a clip.Feeding tangs is a huge phosphate importer.
There are a lot of things that one can do or not do to have this alge and nowhere did Sean or anyone else ever say that it works 100% of the time.I have read more success storys than failure.Show me more and I will match you ten threads of failed sand bed reefs to your one failed BB cooked rock tank.
There are a lot of things that one can do or not do to have this alge and nowhere did Sean or anyone else ever say that it works 100% of the time.I have read more success storys than failure.Show me more and I will match you ten threads of failed sand bed reefs to your one failed BB cooked rock tank.
finneganswake
In Memoriam
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6659537#post6659537 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by MiddletonMark
Perhaps you can answer what the big deal is with Nitrates?
Corals can handle small levels of them, in minor levels they don't really harm much livestock.
In fact, they're needed by corals/life in levels many times what is needed for P. [Isn't the Redfield ration 106C : 16N: 1P? ... suggesting you need 16x the amount of Nitrogen compared to P.
Can you explain to me why Phosphate doesn't matter if it's controlled, but you want to keep ultra-low Nitrogen levels [when N is so much more in demand compared to P]?
Answer me this, and we'll talk about the Phosphate boogeyman. But first you need to demonstrate why Nitrate is such a huge issue if you want to challenge focus on Phosphate.
[they didn't do a county-wide ban on Nitrogen in fertilizers here, just Phosphate. I suppose those limnologists must be reading RC, as they're overly focused on Phosphate
Hold on, cowboy! I never said phosphate isn't an issue, just that it isn't the only variable in a successful aquarium. It's one of the more important issues, and I do everything that I can to keep my phosphates low, but it really isn't that hard. I've never cooked my rocks and I have no phosphate problems AND no algae problems.
Maybe if people stopped obsessing on phosphates we could talk about the fact that very few people actually bother to measure their magnesium levels. How many people have figured out that a simple redox reading can tell you more about your tank than almost anything else?
As to downplaying nitrates, sure, you can have corals that are alive with nitrates, but you know just as well as I do that the best colors come with low nitrates.
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6659435#post6659435 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by SeanT
Aubee,
The values I am citing are from an article by Dr. Holmes-Farley.
If you'd like I can link to it for you.
As for having our tank waters tested the same way...it might cost more than I am willing to pay.
Sean
Oh, I'm not questioning the accuracy of the numbers for ocean water, believe me. I just don't think that the numbers that we get for our tanks for hobbyist test kits are meaningful when compared to those numbers. I was afraid the answer would be that the test would be way too expensive, but was hopeful that it might not be the case.
Sindjin
New member
This is so idiodic.
Why should we cook live rock? To rid the rock of as much PO4 as possible before before putting it in our display. Why? To give you, the reefer that much more of an edge controlling the importation of PO4 into the tank.
Does fish poo give off PO4? of course it does. We cannot control that. But we CAN control the shedding of PO4 out of our rocks....by cooking them. And we CAN control the PO4 leaching from our sandbed...by removing it.
AGAIN, some of us care about detritus build up in our tanks. Some of us want very clean rock. Cooking it is the easiest way, IMO. I did it the hard way...in my display.
Do you own stock in ReefCentral or something? Because you seem to be able to repeatedly troll every one of the threads discussing this topic with your usual flauting of the UA and get away with it. How is that? Moderators, why is that?
Is it just not possible for you to express your ideas and discuss this issue without calling people names? Would you talk like this to someone in person? I sincerely doubt it.
Sindjin
New member
Yes. I once tested a pile of snail poo that accumulated the day after I siphoned my tank bottom. I placed it in a cup and extracted a water sample for PO4...it was 3ppm.
Recently I did the same with a pile of sand debris from my rock... 4ppm.
Finneganswake seems to think that it is silly to be converned with such things, however I feel it is important to understand what can happen if detritus is allowed to accumulate...it will build up PO4 in the water column. Now... in a sandbed that detritus will settle in the bed and the PO4 will build up over time. Thats why it is important to use cooked rock in a DSB... to give the reefer an edge over PO4 importation.
BTW... Im pretty sure my PO4/Detritus test is what inspired Finn's new sig. Im so proud!!
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Folks:
Please focus on the ideas and not the people stating them. I hate closing threads.
Please focus on the ideas and not the people stating them. I hate closing threads.
Boat Racer
New member
Maybe you should close this thread.Better yet delete it.It was ment to be nothing but an arguement to begin with.
finneganswake
In Memoriam
Um, do you mean idiotic, with a "T"?
God, that's ironic:lol:
finneganswake
In Memoriam
So what? What does this mean? Debris tests for phosphates, therefor the water column will test high for phosphates? Debris tests for phosphates, therefor you NEED to cook your rocks?
To show you how bad of a leap of logic this is, let me pose a theoretical situation. Suppose I test a calcium additive, and it tests at, let's say (I'm just guessing here) 2000ppm. By your logic, I shouldn't add this to my tank; I mean, dear god, it tests at 2000ppm, so if I add a couple of milliliters, the calcium levels in my tank will be off the charts!!!
Of course debris tests for phosphates--it's amazing how some people seem to think this is news. All you have to do is come up with a catchy phrase like "shedding" and people throw logic out the window. The idea that rocks are going to be a bigger source of phosphate than fish and fish food is flat out laughable.
finneganswake
In Memoriam
There is NO evidence that phosphate leaches from sandbeds. This has been shown over and over to be a misinterpretation of a single study of a polluted estuary. "Bomber says so" is not scientific evidence.
What is established as scientific fact is that throwing out your sandbed removes a significant source of denitrification. Which causes, hello, ALGAE BLOOMS! You're basically opening yourself up to algae problems to eliminate a non-existant problem. Lose the poor husbandry--that's what causes algae blooms, not your substrate. Need proof? Tell me how many tank of the month winners had bare bottom tanks.
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