Rock cooking, it does work.
- Thread starter SeanT
- Start date
SeanT
Premium Member
I will be as gentle as I can.
Either way...you didn't read it.
It is not just the shaking and agitating that gets the detrius our of the rocks.
If that were the case then all these "power wash it" advocates would be on to something.
A huge part is the bacterial 'turgor' taking place.
There is no 'baking' or 'frying' of anything going on.
The rock is covered with bacteria.
Full of life. You have removed death.
We are all learning, always.
hth,
Sean
From these comments I can tell that you either didn't read the thread or you just skimmed it.FastUno said:
Either way...you didn't read it.
It is not just the shaking and agitating that gets the detrius our of the rocks.
If that were the case then all these "power wash it" advocates would be on to something.
A huge part is the bacterial 'turgor' taking place.
Who is trying to make them sterile???FastUno said:
There is no 'baking' or 'frying' of anything going on.
The rock is covered with bacteria.
Full of life. You have removed death.
I believe this to be a not so good thing. The surface area reduction would limit the bacteria and the denitrification abilities would be severely hampered without deep spaces.FastUno said:
Noone thinks that.FastUno said:
We are all learning, always.
hth,
Sean
FastUno
New member
I will be even gentler.
Sorry for the bold letters, just want to make it stand out of the multiple quotes.
YES, I UNDERSTAND YOUR DEFINITION OF BACTERIAL TURGOR, BUT DON'T BELIEVE IT. SO WHAT YOU ARE SAYING IS THAT THE BACTERIA THAT WERE IN YOUR ROCK BEFORE YOU TOOK THEM OUT TO 'COOK', DID NOT MEET YOUR DEFINITION OF TURGOR? YOU NEEDED TO PLACE YOUR ROCKS IN A BIN & HAVE SOME 'SPECIAL' BACTERIA TURGOR? ARE THESE BACTERIA THAT WILL GROW IN THE ABSENCE OF LIGHT? WILL THEY DIE OFF ONCE PLACED BACK IN THE TANK & BOMBARDED WITH LIGHT (PERHAPS CAUSING MINOR SPIKES)? ONCE BACK IN YOUR TANK ARE THE BACTERIA IN THE ROCKS IN A LESS THAN TURGORED STATE? I HAVE FAILED TO UNDERSTAND BECAUSE YOU HAVE FAILED TO FULLY EXPLAIN YOURSELF, OR ARE YOU SIMPLY MAKING ASSUMPTIONS? I WILL ADMIT TO NOT READING ANYTHING ON ROCK COOKING BEYOND YOUR THREAD, SO I AM COUNTING ON YOU TO MAKE ME UNDERSTAND.
BECAUSE I AM HAVING PROBLEMS BELIEVING THIS STATE HAPPENS ONLY IN YOUR BIN, I HAVE IMPOSED MY OWN BELIEFS WHEN MAKING SUCH A STATEMENT AS, "& second is the need to remove unwanted detritus build up. It's more the shaking & agitating that would partially remove certain amounts of build up." PERHAPS YOU SHOULD LEARN TO READ BETWEEN THE LINES, SUCH AS WE ARE FORCED TO WITH YOUR STATEMENTS.
HAVE YOU PLACED YOUR ROCKS IN THE BIN WITH NOW FLOW? PERHAPS MORE FLOW IN A SMALLER ENVIRONMENT? HAD YOU SAID SOMETHING TO THE EFFECT OF BACTERIA, IN A LOW LIT ENVIRONMENT, ARE ABLE TO UTILIZE NUTRIENTS STORED IN THE ROCK. THE SKIMMING & WATER CHANGES ULTIMATELY REMOVE THE BACTERIA...LEADING TO A CLEANER ROCK, THEN I MIGHT HAVE BEEN DRAWN TO BELIEVE.
LETS TAKE THIS FROM THE TOP. AFTER PLACING YOUR ROCKS IN THE BIN YOU WILL HAVE A GRADUAL HIGH NUTRIENT OUTPUT. AGREED? WITH SOME FLOW, WATER CHANGES, & PERHAPS EVEN SKIMMING WE MANAGE TO LOWER THE NUTRIENT EXPORT AS WHAT ONCE LIVED COMPLETES ITS DEATH CYCLE. WE REACH A STAGE WHERE WE NO LONGER HAVE DIE OFF & YOUR BACTERIA ARE ABLE TO CONDUCT THEIR LIFE CYCLES IN A WAY TO REMOVE THE DIE-OFF FROM ALL THE MACROS (& SUCH) THAT HAS SEEPED FURTHER INTO YOUR ROCKS & ALL THE OLDER DETRITUS BUILD UP THAT IS EVEN DEEPER? WHAT MAKES THE ISOLATION OF YOUR BIN SO SPECIAL & WHY DOES THIS NOT HAPPEN NATURALLY IN THE ROCK WE PLACED IN OUR TANKS? IS THIS NOT WHY WE HAVE PURCHASED LIVE ROCK IN THE FIRST PLACE?
THANK YOU, SOME INFORMATION THAT I CAN USE. SOMETHING THAT I CAN PONDER ON SOME MORE. TO SOME DEGREE I AGREE WITH YOU & REALLY THE REASON WHY I BOUGHT ROCK. BUT I THINK THE PROBLEMS OVER TIME OUTWEIGH THE EARLY STAGE BENEFITS. I WOULD LOVE TO BE CONVINCED OTHERWISE OF THIS BELIEF.
REALLY TRYING TO SAY THAT I DON'T KNOW CRAP, BUT AM WILLING TO LEARN. THERE ARE SO MANY FACTORS INVOLVED THAT EVEN THE TRUE EXPERTS BECOME NON EXPERTS. I WOULD HAVE GIVEN THE TITLE "ANALLY RETENTIVE OF THE YEAR" TO SOMEONE WHO HAD TO FURTHER DISCUSS THAT STATEMENT. BEING THE FACT THAT IT WAS YOU, I WILL FORGO THIS OUT OF RESPECT OF A FELLOW REEFER.
Sorry for the bold letters, just want to make it stand out of the multiple quotes.
YES, I UNDERSTAND YOUR DEFINITION OF BACTERIAL TURGOR, BUT DON'T BELIEVE IT. SO WHAT YOU ARE SAYING IS THAT THE BACTERIA THAT WERE IN YOUR ROCK BEFORE YOU TOOK THEM OUT TO 'COOK', DID NOT MEET YOUR DEFINITION OF TURGOR? YOU NEEDED TO PLACE YOUR ROCKS IN A BIN & HAVE SOME 'SPECIAL' BACTERIA TURGOR? ARE THESE BACTERIA THAT WILL GROW IN THE ABSENCE OF LIGHT? WILL THEY DIE OFF ONCE PLACED BACK IN THE TANK & BOMBARDED WITH LIGHT (PERHAPS CAUSING MINOR SPIKES)? ONCE BACK IN YOUR TANK ARE THE BACTERIA IN THE ROCKS IN A LESS THAN TURGORED STATE? I HAVE FAILED TO UNDERSTAND BECAUSE YOU HAVE FAILED TO FULLY EXPLAIN YOURSELF, OR ARE YOU SIMPLY MAKING ASSUMPTIONS? I WILL ADMIT TO NOT READING ANYTHING ON ROCK COOKING BEYOND YOUR THREAD, SO I AM COUNTING ON YOU TO MAKE ME UNDERSTAND.
BECAUSE I AM HAVING PROBLEMS BELIEVING THIS STATE HAPPENS ONLY IN YOUR BIN, I HAVE IMPOSED MY OWN BELIEFS WHEN MAKING SUCH A STATEMENT AS, "& second is the need to remove unwanted detritus build up. It's more the shaking & agitating that would partially remove certain amounts of build up." PERHAPS YOU SHOULD LEARN TO READ BETWEEN THE LINES, SUCH AS WE ARE FORCED TO WITH YOUR STATEMENTS.
HAVE YOU PLACED YOUR ROCKS IN THE BIN WITH NOW FLOW? PERHAPS MORE FLOW IN A SMALLER ENVIRONMENT? HAD YOU SAID SOMETHING TO THE EFFECT OF BACTERIA, IN A LOW LIT ENVIRONMENT, ARE ABLE TO UTILIZE NUTRIENTS STORED IN THE ROCK. THE SKIMMING & WATER CHANGES ULTIMATELY REMOVE THE BACTERIA...LEADING TO A CLEANER ROCK, THEN I MIGHT HAVE BEEN DRAWN TO BELIEVE.
LETS TAKE THIS FROM THE TOP. AFTER PLACING YOUR ROCKS IN THE BIN YOU WILL HAVE A GRADUAL HIGH NUTRIENT OUTPUT. AGREED? WITH SOME FLOW, WATER CHANGES, & PERHAPS EVEN SKIMMING WE MANAGE TO LOWER THE NUTRIENT EXPORT AS WHAT ONCE LIVED COMPLETES ITS DEATH CYCLE. WE REACH A STAGE WHERE WE NO LONGER HAVE DIE OFF & YOUR BACTERIA ARE ABLE TO CONDUCT THEIR LIFE CYCLES IN A WAY TO REMOVE THE DIE-OFF FROM ALL THE MACROS (& SUCH) THAT HAS SEEPED FURTHER INTO YOUR ROCKS & ALL THE OLDER DETRITUS BUILD UP THAT IS EVEN DEEPER? WHAT MAKES THE ISOLATION OF YOUR BIN SO SPECIAL & WHY DOES THIS NOT HAPPEN NATURALLY IN THE ROCK WE PLACED IN OUR TANKS? IS THIS NOT WHY WE HAVE PURCHASED LIVE ROCK IN THE FIRST PLACE?
RELAX, THIS IS A FIGURE OF SPEECH. NO ONE IS REALLY EXPECTING STERILE ROCKS, WILL NEVER HAPPEN & IF IT DID, WILL NOT LAST FOR LONG. WHAT I WAS TRYING TO GET TO WAS THAT EVEN WITH ALL THE TIME YOU SPENT ON COOKING YOUR ROCK (WEEKS), THERE IS MUCH MORE IN THERE THAN YOU PROBABLY EXPECT. NOT IN TERMS OF LIFE ONLY, BUT IN TERMS OF CRAP & ORGANICS.
THANK YOU, SOME INFORMATION THAT I CAN USE. SOMETHING THAT I CAN PONDER ON SOME MORE. TO SOME DEGREE I AGREE WITH YOU & REALLY THE REASON WHY I BOUGHT ROCK. BUT I THINK THE PROBLEMS OVER TIME OUTWEIGH THE EARLY STAGE BENEFITS. I WOULD LOVE TO BE CONVINCED OTHERWISE OF THIS BELIEF.
REALLY TRYING TO SAY THAT I DON'T KNOW CRAP, BUT AM WILLING TO LEARN. THERE ARE SO MANY FACTORS INVOLVED THAT EVEN THE TRUE EXPERTS BECOME NON EXPERTS. I WOULD HAVE GIVEN THE TITLE "ANALLY RETENTIVE OF THE YEAR" TO SOMEONE WHO HAD TO FURTHER DISCUSS THAT STATEMENT. BEING THE FACT THAT IT WAS YOU, I WILL FORGO THIS OUT OF RESPECT OF A FELLOW REEFER.
Last edited:
NwG
New member
Fastuno,
The answers to all you questions / rants are in the thread..
But I can do it faster...
No light - No algae... No algae, bacteria take over..
Special bin vs. main tank... We have to feed our system, the reason for the bin is so we can have a place that we don't need to feed and is much more easy to drain and clean...
No feeding = unused nutrient in the rock will be consumed by bacteria.. pretty simple...
Nate D
The answers to all you questions / rants are in the thread..
But I can do it faster...
No light - No algae... No algae, bacteria take over..
Special bin vs. main tank... We have to feed our system, the reason for the bin is so we can have a place that we don't need to feed and is much more easy to drain and clean...
No feeding = unused nutrient in the rock will be consumed by bacteria.. pretty simple...
Nate D
What you are doing is using the live rock as an export system(filter). You put it in clean, overfeed, replace it with clean rock and then clean it again. It will work as long as you keep cycling the rock. Why not balance the nutrient load instead, or use a fine mechanical filter and change the media every couple of days.
Calling the process "Cooking" makes no sense and just furthers the image of a process based on assumptions only.
Calling the process "Cooking" makes no sense and just furthers the image of a process based on assumptions only.
Bomber
10 & Over Club
Don't forget that phosphorus compounds are a major component of nitrifying bacteria and the process. While in theory, if everything goes just right, nitrogen compounds are reduced, phosphate has no where to go. Just like in a DSB.
Cooking rock and allowing those combined wastes/detritus to be shed from the rock, transports phosphate out of the rock.
Nate nailed it. It's the exact same process that goes on with rock in the tank. Only when you cook it, it's done in the dark. In the tank it becomes algae driven. In the dark it becomes bacterial driven and is a lot faster and more efficient.
Cooking rock and allowing those combined wastes/detritus to be shed from the rock, transports phosphate out of the rock.
Nate nailed it. It's the exact same process that goes on with rock in the tank. Only when you cook it, it's done in the dark. In the tank it becomes algae driven. In the dark it becomes bacterial driven and is a lot faster and more efficient.
Bomber said:
Wow, you must really know biology. If algae will out compete bacteria in your tank(your statement), then it is more robust than bacteria. Why then is it "a lot faster and more efficient" when only the bacteria is present in the dark. What measurements bring you to this conclusion? What system are we actually trying to improve?
MiddletonMark
Premium Member
Reefmaniac1 said:
Hi RM
Did you cook your rock in a separate tank, or sump, or ?
Two months `should' be enough maybe - but it seems short unless you're really going crazy with the tub water changes/etc [or are skimming it].
Not trying to be critical, but I know on RF some folks seemed to `halfway' cook rocks IMO - something that would yield results like what you see [algae disappeared, but nutrient load still existing in the rocks].
Just 2 cents on your situation, as it's cheaper than new rock.
SurferStevo
New member
More than anything, I'm more concerned with the results rather than the processes behind it.
FastUno
New member
My apologies for the ranting.
I am still now as I was when I first posted in this thread.
Pop quiz
1)What exactly are we trying to treat when cooking rock?
A-eliminate macro algae
B-eliminate/reduce detritus from within rocks
C-eliminate/reduce nutrients from rocks
D-load up rocks with this special grow in the dark bacteria
E-ALL OF THE ABOVE
2)What happens to all this good bacteria that you have grown in the dark once you place in main tank?
A-nothing, they live on forever & are not affected by strong lighting
B-they die off & cause additional nutrient build up in your tank & rocks
C-who cares, the rocks look clean
D-most of the bacteria are whisked away with water changes in the bin, but either A or B may apply
3)Are we saying that macro algae is no good (why are we trying to get rid of it)?
A-yes
B-no
C-depends on type
D-only in your refugiums & not in your display tank & on your rocks.
4)So if we realized how great these bacteria are, why have we not eliminated our refugiums & setup sumps filled with as much rock that we can possibly fit?
A-those rocks will be overwhelmed with bacteria & exhibit the same phenomena that rocks in the main display have shown us
B-we are still seeing the bigger picture, give us time
C-rocks are too expensive to hide in a dark sump
Hope you studied? You will be graded.
I am still now as I was when I first posted in this thread.
Pop quiz
1)What exactly are we trying to treat when cooking rock?
A-eliminate macro algae
B-eliminate/reduce detritus from within rocks
C-eliminate/reduce nutrients from rocks
D-load up rocks with this special grow in the dark bacteria
E-ALL OF THE ABOVE
2)What happens to all this good bacteria that you have grown in the dark once you place in main tank?
A-nothing, they live on forever & are not affected by strong lighting
B-they die off & cause additional nutrient build up in your tank & rocks
C-who cares, the rocks look clean
D-most of the bacteria are whisked away with water changes in the bin, but either A or B may apply
3)Are we saying that macro algae is no good (why are we trying to get rid of it)?
A-yes
B-no
C-depends on type
D-only in your refugiums & not in your display tank & on your rocks.
4)So if we realized how great these bacteria are, why have we not eliminated our refugiums & setup sumps filled with as much rock that we can possibly fit?
A-those rocks will be overwhelmed with bacteria & exhibit the same phenomena that rocks in the main display have shown us
B-we are still seeing the bigger picture, give us time
C-rocks are too expensive to hide in a dark sump
Hope you studied? You will be graded.
