Rubber band toxicity?

[IPT]

Posted this in the Chemistry forum and they recommended I try here.

So my tank has been slowly crashing over several weeks, if not months. At first I found some really high CA (like 580 I think). Then there was some question as too the salinity (too high....recalibrated my Refract now).

At this point all that is stable, and has been for weeks, though there is still a slow decline. Even green star polyps are not opening very much. There is some STN on most SPS. Some are totally gone, poor polyp extension on most. Yellow polyps continue to thrive as does a Frogspawn.

I had the LFS test my water and they came up the same as me, looks acceptable (CA 400, ALK 10, NO3 a tad high at 15, Po4 was low if not trace). Mg last tested out at 1250 (during the crash period but it's been a while since I tested it).

There is only two things left I can think off. A - I got a 50 gal rubbermaid from a buddy. He's used it for years apparently without issue. There is a good amount of White crusty buildup on the sides. I don't think that is the issue, though tonight I am mixing up a new batch of water in a clean tub.

The other, is I used a rubber band a while ago to secure some zoo's to a rock. I am wondering (hoping) that that could have been the problem. If it isn't, then I still have no idea what is going on, or what to do as my tank continues it's slow march of decay. I did move to a house with a well, but that was 8 months ago. I don't recall the issues going nearly that far back.

Any thoughts? Could it have been that (now removed) rubber band?

 

[SaraB]

I don't think it would be from a rubberband as I use 2 of them to attach Nori to PVC in my tank for the Tangs without issue.

I think you just need to ride this out slowly as having too high of CA and Salinity will cause some issues for a quite a while.

 

[reefWW96]

rubberbands are much too small to cause a problem. Ive heard that high calcium starts to burn the tissue of the corals, that was probably it.

 

[IPT]

I that would be great if it was the CA. However, that has been low and stable and during that period is when the Star Polps began there lack of opening. Week by week I notice less polyp extension and fading of colors despite stability for weeks now. (shrug) ... does anyone remember the website od deal with that place that would test your water parameters? Maybe something from the well water is building up and causing the issue?

 

[kaserpick]

... does anyone remember the website od deal with that place that would test your water parameters?

I've seen 3 labs mentioned, but Randy recommends this one above the others. Here it is:

http://www.enclabs.com/

...it's expensive though.

Here are some others...

http://www.aquariumwatertesting.com/

http://www.natureef.com/

 

[IPT]

Holy Cow!! You're not kidding about expensive!! I'm thinking the +/- varience for my use can't be high enough to justify that expense. What's the word on the second link (Aquariumwatertesting)?

 

[Tang Salad]

At this point all that is stable, and has been for weeks...

I think that's your problem right there. Your tank hasn't been stable long enough to need to look for another culprit. SPS could very easily continue to decline for weeks after the chemistry has stabilized.

I don't think it's the rubber band, unless your tank is very small.

 

[kaserpick]

Holy Cow!! You're not kidding about expensive!! I'm thinking the +/- varience for my use can't be high enough to justify that expense. What's the word on the second link (Aquariumwatertesting)?

Yes it is!

As far as AWT goes, I've been reading that while their services are convenient, their testing is not very effective for our hobby. (I find this odd since they're marketing to aquarium hobbyists) Anyway, according to many, their Ca+ and Mg tests read excessively low (in the 200's when hobby tests suggest well into the 400's). They use Ion-Specific Probes when testing these elements; therefore, if any of your calcium is bonded with another element in the water, their test will not register that it's there.

Even when taking this into consideration, Randy doesn't trust them whatsoever. He says that there shouldn't be that high of a percentage bonded with other elements (they're suggesting something near 50%). Anyway, I tell you all this to say that most do not trust them to test the other elements as well.

Here's a link:

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1351363&highlight=aquariumwatertesting+com

A problem to consider (if your looking to check for metals) is that in most cases we don't have someone else's experience (within the hobby) with metal levels in the tank. The reading's may seem 'high', but they very well could be acceptable. For some reason, using NSW to compare metal levels isn't the best idea either. Randy mentions that, but I forget the reasoning.

I hope this helps! If you have other questions in terms of why these testing places (except for ECN...apparently they're a legitimate lab) are a poor choice, ask the guru's in the Reef Chemistry forum. I'm pretty much repeating what I've just read.

On another note, I don't know if anyone's mentioned it, but have you checked to see if you heater isn't cracked? Or if a pump could be leaking metals? I know it's obvious, but I just wanted to make sure, for your sake.

 

[kaserpick]

I just read your post in the Chemistry forum; this quote is from there.

Well, since the animals are having trouble, I'd probably try the full court press. I'd run a PolyFilter, a lot of fresh carbon, more GFO, and probably stop all feeding for a few days, at least. Maybe a few 10-15% water changes, as well. I'm not convinced that those changes will help, but that's all I can suggest.

I would most definitely agree with this advice. If you're going to do more WC's, I'd recommend using a salt that, at the very least, has very similar Ca, KH, and Mg readings (especially KH). As I'm sure you know, be careful not to add too much GFO at once (or carbon for that matter); this could definitely shock the animals.

You mentioned you re-calibrated your refractometer. How did you calibrate it? Again, I know this stuff is obvious, but it's always worth mentioning. Some think it's ok to calibrate with distilled water, but this can lead to false readings. The possible deviation (up to .004) is definitely great enough to cause problems. I use glass hydrometers; it's old school but very accurate. I have the large one by Tropic Marin.

I don't mean to write a page on your thread; I just don't like to hear people having un-explained trouble. It's discouraging to read about, especially considering how far we've come in this hobby. I hope something from this helps you!

 

[travis32]

I saw you mentioned you're using well water. are you filtering the water through RO or RO/DI? Well water can have tons of minerals in them, everything from rust, iron, calcium deposits, and who knows. If your TDS is 0 I wouldn't think it'd be your water.

 

[IPT]

Thanks everyone.

Calibration was done with calibration fluid.

Yes, the well is suspect. I have RO unit but I busted one of the plastic filter holders. I stopped using it a while ago on city water because it was just wasting water and the city water up here was great anyway.

The well water is now my suspect. The parameters have been stable for well over a month now. How do you test the TDS? WOnder if I could trick one of the local water companies into testing the water if I tell them I am on a well and am thinking about filtration?

I would use the RO unit but I am pretty sure I don't have the water presure required (heck, my fridge barely makes ice and the water trickles out). The guy at the local water store told me that for the fridge I might need a pressure boosting pump for that. I hate to buy another pump, and waste all that water.

First order, decide if that is the problem. How do you recommend I go about looking at the TDS of my well water?

Second, if it's bad, how best to deal with it? I know many recommend Distilled or Ion something because it wastes no water (Anthony Calfo I think)..... thoughts anyone?

Lastly, yes, I have been changing 10-15 gals a WEEK for the past 6-8 weeks. I am going to try getting city water from work for the next few water changes.

Thanks for all the thoughts and in advance for the new ones!!