Saltwater Hybrids

Freshwaterguy

New member
If this has already been discussed just point me to the thread. I was browsing in the clownfish section and came across a hybrid thread. I have never done saltwater, but I have had around 200 tanks (mainly rift-lake cichlids) at one time. Is hybridization as common in the saltwater realm, and is it as big of a problem? I am anti-hybridization of any aquarium species. If there is anyone who can give an educated, scientific, or logical view that is pro-hybrid then please feel free to. I've never seen a successful debate on pro-hybrid in any Freshwater forum. This all was started by my son wanting a "Nemo", and I had a spare drilled 125g that I wanted to do the right way. I'm now concerned over what I view as unethical breeding, and wonder what my chances are of buying hybrid clownfish.
 
It's definately not as common as with African cichlids, but it does sometimes occur, but i've heard that its mostly natural hybridization with centropyge angels that hybridize in the wild. In clownfish i'm not sure, but most are not hybrid, hybrids are quite rare. I have never seen one for sale, but I've heard of Percula X Ocellaris Hybrids. I've even heard of Maroon X Ocellaris hybrids, but it's probably a rumour.
 
As I am in the process of getting my 46 gal going I have been doing research for my stocking list. At first I wanted to have tank set up with everything from a certain area but am now siding with all tank raised/ aquacultured fish and corals.I think the hobby is great but if you think about the number of fish taken from the wild I wonder how long before certain species begin to disappear. So cross breading different species may be unethical but I think its better than seeing species disappear from the wild.
I did come across a company that is selling Ocellaris/Biaculeatus(maroon) hybrids as well as another clown hybrid. It may not be right ,but it will help protect wild species from going extinct.Just my 2 cents.
 
In Joyce Wilkersons book "Clownfishes" she suggests that some clownfish are hybrids of other clownfish species.

On page 64 of Clownfishes, Joyce points out
"It is likely that A. leucokranos, the White-bonnet Clownfish, is a hybrid cross between A. chrysopterus and A. sandaracinos."

She also mentiones the possibility that A. thiellie could be a hybrid, but divers have mentioned seeing them near the Solomon Islands.

Tangs

Hybrid Achilles X Goldrim Tang

achillegoldrimkeoki.jpg


Hybrid Powder Blue Gold Rim Tang
5A0EEA014B53412CB0966FCC7EE7AB81H.jpg


Angels
Centropyge flavissimus x Centropyge vroliki
BAC896E5AA97428BB2716B524057C4A1C.jpg



If you do a search for Angelfish hybrid you will start the FW hybrid
Angelfish
http://images.google.com/images?svn...en-US:official&q=hybrid+angelfish&btnG=Search
Cichlids
http://images.google.com/images?svn...a:en-US:official&q=cichlid+hybrid&btnG=Search
Discus
http://images.google.com/images?svn...la:en-US:official&q=discus+hybrid&btnG=Search
 
I also knew some angels did cross breed but hadn't seen tangs.There are probably several other species that do, I don't think its unethical, not sure if he was thinking they were inbreed?Which I am not sure how that would work with fish any how? I actually saw an online vendor had the lemonpeel half-black hybrid that I was considering for my 46 bow.
 
Saltwater fish in general are difficult to breed. I don't know why people find hybrids so unethical. I only find it unethical to breed hybrided fish/ animals and then release them into a wild habitat in which they don't belong. Correct me if i'm wrong, but aren't dogs and cats and many other domesticated animals created by hybridization of certain breeds and many generations of selective breeding to create a certain kind of look, size, color... etc. In my own view, i find that selective inbreeding to be more unethical than hybridization.
 
It's funny ...because when I was breeding guppies for fun ( raised about 3 generations of them), for some reason, i made sure that i didn't interbreed any of the guppies ( just the thought of it i guess), and i guess the coloration was not as vibrant, but ... hey at least they weren't "doing it" with their siblings.. haha
 
It's different with dogs and cats because they are all the same genus and species. There you are only selecting certain genes you want said cat or dog to have. So it is not hybridization what so ever, but mere selective reproduction. With fish it is different because that fish would not exist in the wild, or theoretically for very long, as not all fish are of the same genus and species. Hybridization does occur naturally, most of the time it results in sterile offspring. Therefore the populations never establish. I personally don't care for them in my tanks and would never go out of my way to purchase one. Selective inbreeding is just as bad, however I think that most people understand that selective inbreeding is also bad. It can be a neccasary evil though too. Although that really doesn't have any relevance to salt water fish right now since so few fish are captive breed selective breeding itself hasn't really even happened too much, not nearly as much as say guppies or koi and goldfish or even Discus.
 
I think the only pro-hybrid arguement you could get would be from a SW fish distributor looking to sell the "coolest new fish" or whatever. Hybridization, as mentioned by findawg, usually results in sterile offspring. I think it would be more important to try and breed the same species to each other to promote more captive breeding of saltwater fish. If you can get tangs to hybridize in captivity, why not work on establishing captive-bred populations of a single species?
 
Good last two posts, and glad that findawg gave clarification on how breed hybridization and species hybridization are different.

I wanted to point out the situation with FW Malawi & other rift cichlids is different from that of reef fish. This is what evolutionary biologists use as a prime example of adaptive radiation over a short period of time. Therefore, the species that have been separated are considered relatively young and "soft", still in that genetically malleable stage, so to speak, where many of the biological mechanisms that keep hybrids sterile don't exist (for anyone who is into this stuff, this is the difference between a pre-zygotic and post-zygotic mechanism). The unique geologic history which created and reshaped the rift lakes are responsible for this (There are other examples in ring species such as some seagulls of the north pole, which can interbreed with neighboring species in the continuum at the middle of their range, but can't interbreed where the populations meet on the other side of the world).

This is why species hybridization is common in African cichlids kept in captivity. Purists who breed cichlids still will debate hybrids, for various reasons... one of them is that they become increasingly difficult to identify, make their way back into the hobbyist market as an unidentified hybrid, or worse, misidentified altogether, and no one knows proper care for them anymore.. eventually diluting pure stock.

Because the reef environment is quite different, and species hybrids are much harder to breed, I don't think it will ever get to this point. But I do agree with Adida's post about working on cative breeding of pure species first. I guess it is human nature to look for novelty.
 
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