sand bed cleaning y or no

Re: sand bed cleaning y or no

So I just read through this thread and have come to the conclusion I should vacuum my sand bed. I recently upgraded to a 75 and used all new sand in my display, has been up about 3-5 month time so far. Woul I be able to just vacuum it normal at this point or will I have to be careful with what all has been mentioned?

I have a 4-5" dsb in my fuge will I need to do anythig with that?
 
Python or gravel vac. the 2" section slows flow, allowing you to tumble the sand and suck out the detritus through the siphon hose. Sometimes, like with small oolitic sandbeds it is much easier to work with a 2 foot vacuum. Oolitic is lighter than aragonite the therefore tumbles higher in the vacuum. And yes, by silt, I mean the cloud that comes up. You should be managing the flow by pinching the hose. Do not allow the cloud to spread into the tank and try not to siphon out much sand. I usually leave the bottom of the gravel vacuum level with the top of the sand. This minimizes detritus particles that escape.
 
rob - yeah, pumps off. You really want to siphon out all of the cloudy water - it'll drop pH, raise ammonia and unleash a bunch of other nasties. You'll get the technique quickly.
G - yes to the fuge - same procedure. Sand will store nutrients as well as process them. Eventually the capacity to process gets overwhelmed by the constant additions. You didn't say how deep in the main tank. My rule of thumb is vacuum everything in aragonite up to 2" or oolitic to 1" - anoxic zones (some-little O2) recover quicker than anaerobic zones (little or no O2). If either bed is deeper, use the techniques above to preserve anaerobes and anoxic zones.
 
The display is 1.5"-3" deep depending on the place. Both the fuge and display are aragonite. Will i still see benefits from the sand as far as biological filtration if i am continually disturbing it?

Tampa-"Live Sand Secrets" does this book describe the whole process and mainly everything i'll need to know about cleaning my sand?
 
Depends on age and depth of sand. Moving a rock nestled in the sand can be risky - you can't control "the fog". Do it if you want a new aquascape, but as a rule, don't move the base rocks.
In my personal reef (180, 9 YO), I'm actually removing the sand and have found that I can really funk the system out when I siphon too much from under a base rock. One in particular has a 2 sq ft footprint. One day last year, I funked the tank up for 11 days by getting into an anaerobic patch while siphoning sand out from under a base rock. Cloudy water with ammonia spike AND Ca crash. Once tank cleared, I was able to raise Ca again. Don't really understand that parallel, but that's what the tests showed....
 
Is everyone posting during commercials? Not a football fan but that was a great championship. Close til the end.

G - Maybe you should move some where it is thin in places and permanently deep in others. Your depth is kind of in limbo between deep and vacuumable. If it was mine and I had a remote dsb, I'd have the main tank naked or just a thin layer. That way you don't have to worry about waste build up - there will be no where for it to settle. Pumps will kick debri up where coral will eat it or the skimmer will remove it. I have tanks with bare bottom, dsb and plenums. Many have run up to or over ten years. After a recent analysis, I've taken the approach of starting tanks with an inch and slowly removing it in time. As you add corals, they take over a lot of the biological filtration by consuming wastes directly themselves. Sand cultures quickly and is helpful initially but its duty can be replaced by corals. I personally prefer a carpet of palys, ric's, star polyp, etc in a mosaic instead of sand on the bottom - both in looks and in eliminating detritus traps, but cannot argue against the effectiveness of a well managed sandbed.
Goemans is very thorough in descriptions of appropriate media - size and compostion as well as an overview of the microbial biology. I just find him a bit stiff on the rules of plenums. In all dsb scenarios grain size, composition AND depth should be considered - his rules are set in stone.
One other trick with dsb's made of aragonite: I like to mix in some oolitic sand periodically. It dissolves at a higher pH than aragonite, helping to assist with the tank's buffering. You can see it in the bed and know when to add more because of its unique shape. Oolitic sand is formed by precipitation in shallow waters and is perfect little reef spheres. Much of the sand in the Bahamas is Oolitic. Aragonite is typically ground/crushed coral or shell. It is harded and dissolves at lower pH, so it stays longer in a dsb.
 
I've read a lot of Eric Borneman work and am fascinated by his methods and theories on dsb and refugiums, I just don't think I understand enough to be able to swing that yet. I have read of the corals taking up the nutrients in the tank, but never of someone removing their sandbed after that point. That's an interesting concept. So far my sand has given me nothing but problems, I think its time for a deep cleaning
 
Your CuC should keep your sand clean. If your going to clean the sand with a siphon do so very slowly and only a small portion at a time if you have an established tank.
 
TS: do you get much problem with your sand solidifying in spots?

I vacuum mine periodically, just the top inch or so. Maybe every 6 months when I add sand or if I get some cyano that I need to suck out.
 
I don't often have solidification in mine, but I do employ full time cleaners that keep the top layer moving - olive snails and tiger tail cukes - as long as there are no angels or anyone else that would nip at them. Cukes eviscerate (puke) as a deterrant to predators. The fluid is poisonous. I use them in several tanks, though and have never had an issue. If you have solidification (biogenic calcification, if I remember) then run a butter knife through it to break it up. Solid areas like that aren't necessarily bad - they go anoxic-anaerobic inside, but if they take up the whole bed you lose aerobic-anoxic zone bacteria which take you through the basic nitrogen cycle. Goemans says all of that best. Frequent vacuuming of the surface layer breaks up the organisms that work to bind the sand. Periodic deep vacumming lets you see how much dirt is really in the carpet.
As for removing a dsb - that is dicey - I said I'm doing it in mine (the one that funked for 11 days), but my customer's tanks usually only have an inch to start with for the basic cycling. They get thoroughly vacummed every time with that depth. Not enough time to overload with nutrients, and a bunch of surface area for aerobic and anoxic zones. Once the tank is full of corals and established for a couple years, I shift that job to them. Filter feeding and absorbtion by 'shrooms, softies, zoa's/palys, etc reduces the amount of ammonia that needs to be dealt with by aerobic bacteria. Also, once you start to put corals on the bottom, you're stifling the efficiency of the sand so it just becomes a repository for detritus.
 
Rob - try one small section. Hold the vacuum in one hand and the hose in the other. Keep a slight pinch on the hose to slow flow. Pick your spot and let the sand tumble in the vacuum until the water goes clear. Pinch harder if sand goes up the hose. Once cleared, lift the vacuum straight up just below level with the top of the bed and pinch a bit harder to slow flow and drop sand. You must keep some flow while dropping sand because it ensures you minimize silt that escapes. Work in small areas because you've just disrupted all the deep living bacteria in that proximity for the next several months. Never lift the vacuum up and drop sand from a height. You'll put too many bad things in the water column - chems, bugs, etc.
 
I have about a 2.5" sand bed and vacuum the top .5" slowly every waterchange...water parameters are good and no problems so far....
 
Great stuff guys l. I appreciate it alot. Methods and all. I'm getting ready to move the whole tank. So I figure I'll take the rocks out and move the tank, try to keep the sand bed in the tank. We will see. I'll have another tank set up at the new spot for coral and rock to go in, and so to test for ammonia. We will see...
 
Not vacuuming the sand is setting yourself up for headaches later on. Start by doing a 25% of the sand, then the next water change do the first 25% you already did plus another 25% of new realestate. The next water change should be the 50% you have already done plus 25% new. Do one more to complete the last 25%. From then on do the entire bottom each time you do a water change.
 
Re: sand bed cleaning y or no

Well my bed varies from 1.5"-2.5" and my diamond goby is constantly turning the top 3/4". Should I still vac that top 1/2" during water changes?
 
I have had a dozen of my customers always tell me about how their fish and coral will all of a sudden dying of massively. Upon further investigation, they all were told by a LFS to stir up their sand bed when they do their water changes. Although I have never done this, I can say that when I use the magnet cleaner and hit my sand bed it creates a plume of sand dust. When you kick up a large amount of your sand, that dust will get caught in the gills of your fish, aggetate corals, and release the ammonia pockets that slowly break down in your sand bed. Best way to clean a sand bed is to get nassarius snails and sand sifter sea stars. I have about 20 nassarius and 4 sand stars in my 200g tank and they do a good job of mixing up the sand without kicking up dust. There is most likely something else causing the no3 issue
 
I'd recommend more reading before adding sand sifter sea stars. They require live food which means they eat the other sand fauna that help break down the detris in your tank. Then they starve.
 
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