Sand bed cleaning

[mightymikeupser]

I met a new friend today and he was amazed that I don't vacuum my sand. I've had several tanks and always just rely on clean up crews to do the job. What are your opinions on this topic?

 

[tatuaje08]

Causes cycles, things could die. If you really want to do it, do it a little at a time.

 

[Down]

Causes cycles, things could die. If you really want to do it, do it a little at a time.

Doesn't that really depend on depth? DSB, most certainly but a SSB? I'm thinking you're just fine.

 

[tatuaje08]

Doesn't that really depend on depth? DSB, most certainly but a SSB? I'm thinking you're just fine.

If you stir up enough junk in any sandbed you can create a cycle. I've done it a few times while changing sand type. My beds are only 2".

 

[Down]

If you stir up enough junk in any sandbed you can create a cycle. I've done it a few times while changing sand type. My beds are only 2".

True, but if husbandry is up to snuff, should a 2" bed have enough junk to cause a cycle?

 

[tatuaje08]

True, but if husbandry is up to snuff, should a 2" bed have enough junk to cause a cycle?

I don't know what the op's husbandry is like. Its really hard to tell what's at the bottom of your sandbed. I know people who vacuum the top half of their sand and have no issues.

 

[AntiSatan]

Kind of depends on what type of sand your using fine or course. Is it reef or swim.
Generally if its reef with fine sand leave it alone. Really only vacuum cousre sand/gravel with lots of messy eating fish.

 

[tatuaje08]

Kind of depends on what type of sand your using fine or course. Is it reef or swim.
Generally if its reef with fine sand leave it alone. Really only vacuum cousre sand/gravel with lots of messy eating fish.

Fine sand is hard to vacuum anyhow because most of it gets sucked up.

 

[mightymikeupser]

It's the argonite sand. I think when I started the hobby I was told by someone who had 3 spectacular tanks to don't mess with sand bed as long as you had a lot of nassarius snails and crabs to clean up. Since then that's exactly what I've done with 4 tanks that I've had and thus far I've had no problems.

 

[tatuaje08]

My opinion is this..... If you have to vacuum your sand, its because of an issue like algae or something. If your tank is healthy then no need to vacuum.

 

[mightymikeupser]

Not sure what dsb and ssb mean?

 

[jesusmeza80]

i think its deap sand bed and small sand bed

 

[tatuaje08]

Deep vs shallow.

 

[tatuaje08]

Also.....rdsb remote deep sand bed, bb bare bottom. Do a search here on rc and you will see a lot of stories about tank crashes from disturbing sand beds.

 

[speedo2wet]

My opinion is this..... If you have to vacuum your sand, its because of an issue like algae or something. If your tank is healthy then no need to vacuum.

I have to agree, I usually run DSB for years and never have issues. I never clean the sand bed unless there is something growing on it otherwise it's the clean up crews that do the work. IMO - good flow and water changes will do the trick.

 

[tcamos]

I have a shallow sand bed that runs 2"-3" in depth. I have this discussion often with some people, especially those who advocate a bare bottom tank. I do not clean my sand bed. I know many who recommend it because they feel they are phosphate traps and I suppose crushed coral can be but I've found fine sand, which is what I use, doesn't create problems for me.

 

[coralreefjunkie]

Thanks, Mike, for bringing this topic up. I would like to share with club members that I am a proponent of DSB....since the mid 1980s. After taking a hiatus from 2002 to 2011, I came back and learned that so much things have changed in world of reef husbandry. Carlos (Aquarius) and Josh (coralreefdoc) helped me get up to speed quickly. They convinced me not to do a DSB in my display tank, which was what I followed when I transformed my 150G from fresh to reef earlier this year.

Here's my opinion, having done both methods:

Shallow Sand Bed-
-requires less sand (+)
-rocks can sit directly on tank bottom rather than on top of sand (+)
-ease of switching sand (+)
-maintenance (-)
[sugar-size grains don't require vacuuming, as large particle fish waste can't penetrate downwards]
[larger grains needs vacuuming IFF (if and only if) one wants to 1) ensure there's no dead spots that can harbor detitrus and fish wastes, 2) ease the burden on the denitrate/phosphate reactors, and 3) stretch the water change schedule]

Deep Sand Bed:
-requires a lot of sand, at minimum of 6" (-)
-takes up valuable real estate, most tank are not deep enough for extra 6" (-)
-must install correctly, including plenum & mesh guards (-)
-must remained undisturbed once set up (-)
-less maintenance, no vacuuming (+)
-rocks rest on sand, not tank bottom (-)
[fish that dig can make rocks shift, even if there's a mesh guard]
-potential of toxic byproducts leaching back into water column, crashing the system (-)
-aesthetically unpleasing, particularly the algae build up on the glass beneath the sand level (-)

Considering all of the pros and cons of the two options, I am seriously contemplating adding more sand to my system, as my arms are not long enough to reach the bottom of my tall tank. I realized this when some hermit crabs knocked over several frags, which fell to the bottom of the tank and I can't reach it. Sorry, Carlos & Josh, it has become a matter of necessity rather than preference for my tank.

Yes, I will incrementally add the new fine-sized sand in small sections to prevent mass destruction of beneficial bacteria colonies on my current live sand. I look forward to not having to vacuum my the sand bed in the future.

 

[speedo2wet]

Things have changed; you can have a minimum of a 4" sand bed instead of the old school method of 6" these days and have great outcomes. The way of the plenum and mesh guard has gone away, well IMO, especially the under gravel filter system. Rocks don't have to sit directly on the sand top but can still be placed on the glass or a pipe structure. Once set up you don't have to mess with the sand bed at all and I believe if you have the eco structure and support group you don't have to spend time cleaning the sand bed. I'm preparing on a minimum 4" bed with an algae scrubber as the only main filtration system, I'll start a thread on that soon.
My first system was set up with the use of Ocean Beach sand, if you do just make sure you wash it first - lesson learned.

My first system was up and running for over 6 years no issues and very self sustaining.
Yet in my opinion in the event of a power failure, the DT should hold all necessary biological critters to keep the tank well for more than enough time.
There are so many neat things that need the sand to grow and eat that I say why not have it. I would only think that in the event you had some pocket spike there would be the necessary bacteria to take care of it. If you didn’t then your system doesn’t seem as stable as you think it is. Also as I have just learned from my 112 gallon: maybe we put way to much rock in the DT and end up with a small water volume causing issues in itself.

 

[LouisianaReefer]

Also.....rdsb remote deep sand bed, bb bare bottom. Do a search here on rc and you will see a lot of stories about tank crashes from disturbing sand beds.

I wish I read this earlier! I caused some damage to 2 of my LPS corals by disturbing a 2 inch by 4 inch area of my shallow SB when trying to vacuum in my 75 gallon display. More is NOT better in this craft. I did a water change which seemed to reduce some of the problems. I thank God that I did not kill anything.

 

[azjohnny]

All calcium carbonate ( sand and live rock) will absorb PO3. I have read a few threads where the reefer will do partial sand bed changes and this has gotten good results. I am now running BB tank and love it, you would be amazed at the amount of detritus that forms in a sand bed