About 3 years ago, I had 4 sand sifters. A couple of months ago, it looked like I was down to 1. I added 3 a couple of weeks ago, and shortly after I found one dead, and I feel like I was down to one. I bought 3 more on Sunday- today I found another one dead, it looked partly eaten. I have had a large red serpent star for about 3 years- she is A-ok. What is happening to the sand sifters? Thank you, Dawn.
Sand sifters dead
- Thread starter Dawn II
- Start date
Charlie97L
New member
are we talking snails or stars, when you say "sand sifters" also, what else lives in your tank?
Letmegrow
New member
They are likely starving to death, they do not eat algae or diatoms, they are predators and are eating your sand bed critters. They can deplete your tank of worms and pods very quickly.
I would stop purchasing the stars and inform the source you are getting them from what they eat and how to care for them.
I would stop purchasing the stars and inform the source you are getting them from what they eat and how to care for them.
The steven liu
New member
You need to feed them if you want to keep them alive. get some sinking food and place it directly under them.
Letmegrow- You have the wrong critter- sand sifting star (Astropectin)- is DEFINITELY a scavenger, not a predator-cleaning up detritus, etc. that is why he is called a sand sifter- much like my Hectori goby. Do a search on Google - liveaquaria.com has a write up and picture - or go to page 635 of Julian Sprung's "Reef Aquarium" vol. 3. Oh-my parameters are fine.
Dawn.
Dawn.
LeslieH
Premium Member
Dawn, not all references are right or have complete information. Astropecten isn't just a scavenger. It eats pretty much whatever it can as it moves across the sand - live worms, molluscs, smaller stars, crustacea, detritus, dead animals, etc. They can rapidly deplete a sand bed and do indeed starve to death. Another factor is that they can be surprisingly sensitive and may be dying due to stress in from capture, shipping, handling, or not being acclimated.
McBeck
Premium Member
Dawn - are you familiar with Dr. Ron Shimek? Here are a few notes from him indicating Astropecten is not a scavenger:
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=667335&highlight=Astropecten
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=225436&highlight=Astropecten
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=59115&highlight=Astropecten
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=667335&highlight=Astropecten
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=225436&highlight=Astropecten
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=59115&highlight=Astropecten
LeslieH
Premium Member
First off, there's my own unpublished notes from 25 years ago when I was examining stomach contents of many different inverts including Astropecten. But if you want something in black and white try these:
Distribution patterns and selective feeding in two Astropecten species (Asteroidea:Echinodermata) from Cleveland Bay, northern Queensland
s Lemmen, PW Arnold and RA Birtles
Abstract
During 1985, Astropecten zebra was concentrated in shallow inshore areas of Cleveland Bay, northern Queensland, Australia, whereas Astropecten velitaris was found only further offshore. The two species had an overlapping distribution in depths between 5 and 13 m, but juveniles (maximum arm length ≤ 16 mm) were virtually absent from areas of co-occurrence: A. zebra juveniles were largely restricted to inshore areas, whereas A. velitaris juveniles were predominantly found in offshore areas.
Analysis of stomach contents demonstrated that both species are selective feeders, consuming mainly bivalves and gastropods, which constituted nearly 90% of the diet in A. zebra and nearly 75% in A. velitaris. The diet of the latter is complemented largely by crustaceans (17.1%). Crustaceans were proportionately better represented in the stomach contents of A. velitaris than in bottom samples. In contrast, although foraminiferans and polychaetes dominated the bottom samples, they were virtually absent from the stomach contents of either species of Astropecten. Both species demonstrated a preference for small prey items.
Marine and Freshwater Research 46(2) 447 - 455
http://www.vliz.be/vmdcdata/macrobel/taxdetails.php?id=5659
The heart-urchin is a component of the diet of a number of demersal fish, especially plaice, and is also eaten by asteroids, notably by Astropecten spec. (Wolff, 1973; De Ridder & Lawrence, 1982; Fish & Fish, 1989; Rees & Dare, 1993).
pet store listing as a carnivore:
http://www.peteducation.com/article.cfm?cls=16&cat=1908&articleid=2183
And a quote from Calfo & Fenner 2003 "Reef Invertebrates" about tank suitability: "With their sensitivity to the imposed rigors of shipping, and forgiving the gross generalizations here, we do not recommend these genera for casual aquarists when so many other beautiful and hard species are available. Some Astropecten are collected in temperate waters off the Carolina coasts and are ill suited for captivity."
Letmegrow
New member
Thank-you Leslie and Becky.
You both are a valued asset.
DawnII - Never read anything from liveaquaria and take it seriously. Just because they are selling the product does not mean they know what they are talking about.
Their information is the most generic I have ever seen.
These animals do not come from a wide range as such they suggest, ie. SG 1.020 - 1.025 and temps 72F-75F.
Most of the creatures we buy are from temperatures that average at 81.5F and the is SG 1.025.
This is a constant, not a variable.
Please keep your animals in this Temp and Salinity with as little varient as possible.
You both are a valued asset.
DawnII - Never read anything from liveaquaria and take it seriously. Just because they are selling the product does not mean they know what they are talking about.
Their information is the most generic I have ever seen.
These animals do not come from a wide range as such they suggest, ie. SG 1.020 - 1.025 and temps 72F-75F.
Most of the creatures we buy are from temperatures that average at 81.5F and the is SG 1.025.
This is a constant, not a variable.
Please keep your animals in this Temp and Salinity with as little varient as possible.
The 2 links are generalizations- they mention the species- such as damsel, not the indiv. variety- I have never lost a fish, shrimp, etc. to one of them. This includes many tiny stars id by Sprung on page 433- vol. 2 as possibly Asterina. I think the idea that they no longer have enough to eat was valid. Yes- I saw Shimek doing his Instant Ocean "thing" in Orlando last year at the reef conference ( I have a couple of pictures against his giant salt chart). I was so surprised that he would take this opportunity to push Instant Ocean. Also at the conference were Borneman, Martin Moe, and Sprung- We really much enjoyed these 3 well respected men. Anyway, I think the point made - that my sand sifters don't have enough to eat is valid. I will keep the population lower. Thank you for your help. over and out, Regards, Dawn.
pufferpoison
Member
I too was mislead on these sand sifters. It's a shame more people in the industry don't know what their talking about. Now i have a 25 dollar mistake and i don't want it to die because of my ignorance.
After I posted this, I had a sand sifter with melty legs- then I lost my red serpent star- Scarlett O'Hara- that I'd had for 2 1/2 yrs. her disc turned a light color, and she decomposed- for lack of better words- in one day (For the past two weeks, when I tried to target feed her, she refused). After that I had another melty sifter, and it was suggested on another forum that one of the sifters brought in a virus- which I believe to be correct. The deaths wreaked havock with my tank, causing temporary coral shut downs and recessions ( I eventually lost an orange fungia I'd had for 2 years plus.). Things happened very swiftly, but they are slowly coming back to normal each day through water changes, carbon, Chemi Pure, etc. I was lucky not to lose shrimps, my very large clam, or fishes. I still have (2) sand sifters in the tank- which I didn't realize were there until lat night- I will examine and determine what to do with them.
