Sandbed discussion

[jnarowe]

many reef tanks are bare bottom and especially the large ones primarily due to maintaining the sand. Over time the sand becomes saturated with toxins and then the tank crashes. The reasoning behind this is that in the wild the sand is constantly being shifted and sifted and animals consume the "toxic" material. In a captive reef, it is extremely difficult to keep these things in balance and that's why some people go bare-bottom with perhaps a little sand for asthetic reasons.

This is hotly debated on all reef forums because many people believe in using sand beds while others do not, and some reef keepers even utilize a remote sand bed that they can easily maintain without disturbing the display tank.

It's a tough call really, but there is nothing worse than having your beautiful reef tank crash and not kowing how to fix it. It could just be considered an element of risk that needs to be managed properly.

 

[GSchiemer]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6539576#post6539576 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by jnarowe
many reef tanks are bare bottom and especially the large ones primarily due to maintaining the sand. Over time the sand becomes saturated with toxins and then the tank crashes. The reasoning behind this is that in the wild the sand is constantly being shifted and sifted and animals consume the "toxic" material. In a captive reef, it is extremely difficult to keep these things in balance and that's why some people go bare-bottom with perhaps a little sand for asthetic reasons.

This is nonsense and should not be stated as if it were factual. There are MANY examples of reef aquariums with sand substrates, including my own and just about EVERY TOTM to date, that have been successfully running for MANY years.

Greg

 

[jnarowe]

GSchiemer You're right. My bad.

reefers: my recant
--I have no idea what I am writing about.
--There is no debate over using sand beds or not
--Everyone is using one but me
--There is no such thing as a Remote DSB
--Captive sand cannot become saturated with toxins
--There is no way for a tank to crash due to an overloaded sand bed

 

[Skipper]

[flamealert]

 

[Boat Racer]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6539576#post6539576 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by jnarowe
many reef tanks are bare bottom and especially the large ones primarily due to maintaining the sand. Over time the sand becomes saturated with toxins and then the tank crashes. The reasoning behind this is that in the wild the sand is constantly being shifted and sifted and animals consume the "toxic" material. In a captive reef, it is extremely difficult to keep these things in balance and that's why some people go bare-bottom with perhaps a little sand for asthetic reasons.

This is hotly debated on all reef forums because many people believe in using sand beds while others do not, and some reef keepers even utilize a remote sand bed that they can easily maintain without disturbing the display tank.

It's a tough call really, but there is nothing worse than having your beautiful reef tank crash and not kowing how to fix it. It could just be considered an element of risk that needs to be managed properly.

I agree totaly with you.I have a SSB at this time and when I get the motivation and energy I will drasticly change my reef by cooking the rocks and going BB.While not every DSB or SSB has problems I feel this change will make for an easyer reef to maintain and the gamble is not there considering I do my job as the keeper to the best of my ability.It is a fact that some of the most beautifull and succesful reefs I have seen are DSB or SSB.That doesnt meen that they dont have their problems in relation to the bed and harboring nutrients and the things that come along with that.I hope this taken as civil as it was intended.

 

[npaden]

With 4 posts and 4,000+ views I thought I would add something to this. There are many threads going on that have good discussions on this rather than 1 person posting their inconclusive thoughts on the matter. Please read one of those if you are actually interested in learning something about susbtrate choices.

Also there is a nice thread in the New to the Hobby forum that do a good job of giving the basics on substrate choices. The sad thing is that it had lots of input from different people and was well thought out and it has less views than this post.

Here is a link to it if you are interested: http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=732378

FWIW, Nathan

 

[Mrs.kbmdale]

There's already a thread going on about this, so why the need to start ANOTHER one?http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=745968


Brianna

 

[finneganswake]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6539576#post6539576 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by jnarowe
many reef tanks are bare bottom and especially the large ones primarily due to maintaining the sand. Over time the sand becomes saturated with toxins and then the tank crashes. The reasoning behind this is that in the wild the sand is constantly being shifted and sifted and animals consume the "toxic" material. In a captive reef, it is extremely difficult to keep these things in balance and that's why some people go bare-bottom with perhaps a little sand for asthetic reasons.

This is hotly debated on all reef forums because many people believe in using sand beds while others do not, and some reef keepers even utilize a remote sand bed that they can easily maintain without disturbing the display tank.

It's a tough call really, but there is nothing worse than having your beautiful reef tank crash and not kowing how to fix it. It could just be considered an element of risk that needs to be managed properly.

I'd really recommend doing some research on this subject before you come to these conclusions. The truth is that the bare bottom phenomenon is almost entirely an "Internet only" practice. Basically, a few vocal "experts" have convinced people on Reef Central and other boards that there is a huge debate about DSBs crashing. Actually, outside of the internet, there is no such debate. I challenge you to find ANY published author in this field who claims that DSBs always crash. What you will find is that most published authors say that BB tanks are a very bad choice as you are sacrificing denitrification for an "inevitable" crash that doesn't actually exist outside of the minds of a few people who misread studies and/or can't admit that it was their sloppy husbandry and not the sandbed that caused a crash in their tanks. Unfortunately, a lot of the BB "experts" have managed to convince people that these authors are saying this in an attempt to conquer the lucrative sand market:lol:

 

[Skipper]

This thread was created as a split from the Tank of the Month thread, guys/gals. I felt it was detracting to the TOTM thread.

 

[npaden]

Heh,

And now it is detracting us! I was wondering how it got so many views!

 

[reefdood]

I never had crashes or any MAJOR problems due to sand. And I use very primitive hardware on my personal tank. As a former LFS maintainence employee and a self employed aquarium maintanence provider I can tell you It's ALL ABOUT HUSBANDRY.

Now wether it's IMO is up to you to decide. But *I* have success with sandbeds. Those who don't may need to reconsider husbandry practices and/or do more waterchanges.

I was wiped out by red bugs, power failures, and poisonng, but never wiped out by sand. I've even used dried up used livesand from my 90 when I setup my 30. Less than a month of cleaning daily and the tank had spotless sand, full of worms and bugs too. Zoos reproducing on the sand and SPS happy as could be at the top.

IMO It's not the sand, it's not the equipment either. It's all about the reefer and the dedication to do whatever it takes to look good through maintanence.

That's how us maintanence guys keep afloat. People need us to do what they can do but are too lazy to do.

 

[hookdonreefs]

There is no mantinence to a dsb if you have good flow and sifters. There is more maitenence to bb because you have to siphon it out all the time. If you use agronite sand it contains major and minor elements so its more benificial to the system. I had a dsb in a tank with a leopard shark, trigger , wrasse, 2 lions, among other fish with only a protien skimmer for filtration. 3 years no problems at all.

 

[reefdood]

I didn't mean maint. on the sandbed. I meant maint on the tank itself.

Cleaning glass more, changing media, scrubbing rocks in saltwater with a brush when needed, blowing and siphoning, etc., etc.

 

[crpeck]

It truly is making me sad to see how this DSB/BB/Rock cooking war is threatening our community. I do not understand the militant and contentious fanaticism and the relentless determination to re-ignite this thing over and over again.

I would love to see a summary thread with links to all of the reasonable discussions on the topic stickied at the beginning of each forum and a ban (at least temporarily) from starting any new threads on this subject. It's just too touchy for too many people right now.

Personally, I plan to boycott and refuse to even click on any thread that has DSB, BB or rock cooking in the title. I plan to try to spend more time offerering positive input and goodwill where I can. RC has been such a lifesaver for me so many times, starting out and during numerous crises. We need to rally and step overboard to renew the positive energy we used to have here.

I'm sorry if this post seems contentious as well ... its not meant to be. I'm really responding to a whole slew of threads that have been rolling since Christmas rather than just this one. I just had to express once how really sad I've been over all this. The last thing I want to do is to perpetuate it by bringing it up again.

So that's it. No more from me. Just had to vent once.

Sorry mods

Cathy