Self diagnosed Crypt outbreak, please help advise

[TrevorA]

I had a 600 litre tank with a large lion fish, a large porcupine puffer.

2 days ago the puffers eyes looked a lite cloudy and he had some spots on his fins. Yesterday morning his eyes were opaque and he was covered, and the lion fish had started developing the same symptoms.

I spent hours reading and decided on cupramine, removed all inverts and carbon and did the first dose. Within an hour the dots had reduced massively on both fish but the puffer retired to the corner and was breathing very heavily. Cosmetically he continued to improve and eye opacity started to return, however he passed in the night, absolutely gutted!

By last night the lion fish was swimming vigorously again and looked loads better and clear of spots, with little brown marks left behind.

I'm still waiting for my copper test kit, nobody locally has it but it's ordered.

What strength should I aim for with just the lion fish and can somebody please confirm my very amateur diagnosis please?

 

[TrevorA]

 

[TrevorA]

 

[TrevorA]

Anybody?

 

[TrevorA]

My lion fish is now very lethargic and copper levels at or below the first dose still, at under 0.25, so today I should be increasing to .5, but think I'll only increase to .35 or .4. He also has like little burst blood vessels in the corner of his eyes, is this likely the copper causing this?

Really worried I'm going to lose him but no idea what else to do other than continue the treatment. He shed his epidermis last night again, and his skin looked reasonably clear, however this morning he looks dusted in salt again. Although if I stir the bottom of the tank at all loads of specks this size appear, could it be that as he is not moving much this IS just tiny grains of sand landing on him and that isn't a reinfestation? I really would appreciate ANY help somebody can give.

 

[TrevorA]

Posting this here again in the hope that somebody can chip in with some advice. But not looking likely

I have a several month old large 75 gallon marine setup with a 20 gallon sump.

I started with a 9" lionfish as my first fish after first establishing with approx 25KG of live rock and 75KG of coral sand topped with 10KG of Caribsea live sand.

Then some snails, a hermit in the refugium and all sorts of bristle worms and so on appeared from the live rock. I added the Lion Fish who didn't eat for a few days but then started taking from a wooden skewer and developed a very healthy appetite. About a month later I added a large 7"ish porcupine puffer, who had been in my LFS for over 8 weeks with no issues, no qt procedure at all though. However he was eating almost immediately and seemed very healthy and a great fish. Then several weeks after that I added a 3" plus foxface, no QT procedure again, boy have I learnt that lesson!, who immediately set to work on my green hair algae and was very happy. About a week later I upgraded the tank to a 125 gallon. All fish were in large plastic heated buckets with canister filter for about 6 hours.

I added more new Coral sand and more caribsea. After I added them back the foxface was never the same, and retired under a cave looking very under the weather and a little blotchy, my wife thought she saw some spots but never certain. A couple of mornings later he was dead.

Then a couple of days later I could see spots on the fins of my puffer, the next day his eyes had started clouding over and by the next morning he was blind, as you can see in the picture, with lots of white spots and started to almost lose colour and go grey, there were also obvious spots on the fins and body of the Lion and his eyes were a little cloudy. I spent hours and hours reading but have no hospital tank and after initial excitement at things like Rid Ich and soon realised copper was my only hope if I was correct about Crypt and decided on Cupramine after speaking to seachem who said it gets absorbed but doesn't bind with calcareous material and could eventually be removed using cuprasorb, but most importantly was less toxic on scaleless fish.

I removed all the inverts I could and put in my first dose, but couldn't get a test kit anywhere, so ordered one for next day delivery. Within hours the remaining inverts were dead and dropped to the sand bed as expected, but also the puffer that was already breathing very hard, retired to a corner and was panting and very short breaths. Over the next few hours his breathing stayed the same rate, hardly any movement but got deeper, so I began to hope a little. During that evening almost all the spots appeared to go on the Lion and his eyes looked better, although this is hard to see properly as the spots look at their worst under the blue LEDS, in between with the white lights on and almost invisible with no lights and normal daylight or incandescent.

The next morning the puffer was dead and the Lion appeared covered again. I went and got my test kit and it showed negligible copper, less than .1, so I added another full dose and got it to .25, then monitored during the day, having to redose, as expected to keep it stable, the lion again seemed to clear itself during the evening and shed its epidermis again and started swimming a little, (it was always a lazy fish during the day anyway) then the next morning it was down to about .15 so I gradually redosed up to about .4 to .45 as directed by Seachem and tested over and over during the day, having to redose about 8pm, but only 5ml to get back to the right dose. I guess that the absorption is slowing down, again as seachem said it would. I also, after reading more and more, decided on a freshwater dip with double dosed Methylene blue, 5 minutes, which he hated and immediately hid in a cave he barely fitted in for several hours, however, by the time we went to bed he was swimming very strongly as he used to at night in the various currents and on his 5th day of not eating still refusing food. However all his dots appeared to be gone just leaving behind little scars, presumably where cysts had dropped from.

Now this morning the tank was down to about .35, so I've added enough to get back to just over .4 ( I am pretty awful at these colour tests though) but he again appears covered in little white specs, and still refusing to eat, but only trying once a day, he is sitting on the sand near a cave, however that isn't unusual for the time of day. But with the dose never dropping below .3+ for over 48 hours, I don't see how he can be infested again. In the water column, especially under the blue lights, there are hundreds of similar sized specs washing about, I assume small coral sand, or dead copepods, is it possible that as the Cupramine increases the slime coat that these are just sticking to him when he stops swimming about? and I am thinking he is being reinfected but he isn't? I plan on continuing this for at least 14 days, however Seachem have suggested extending to 21 as I am not treating at .5, although this will possibly mean he won't have eaten for 23-24 days by then. Should I increase the strength, ( I am making a reference .5 sample up side by side with every test to ensure I get the dose right) or extend the treatment, repeat the freshwater bath or........

Any advice gratefully received, I loved both of these fish and would hate to lose my Lion too, I have loads of freshwater tropicals, Discus and Koi and nothing has bothered me as much as these two getting sick, and my knowledge to look after them is apparently woeful. I have included Seachem support in this email as their team have been incredibly helpful and responsive, so any help from anybody to try and save him would be gratefully received.

Water parameters are;
PH 8.2
Ammonia was zero but showing a trace (But Seachem say Cupramine causes this as a misread)
Nitrite 0
Nitrate 5 (I have left my skimmer running)
Carbonate Hardness 11-12

I have also spoken to a very helpful exotic pet, but he just reiterated I was doing the right thing and that Crypt was always present in marine tanks and then I found he gets advice from my local LFS when he's stuck, who has also been very helpful so decided not to pursue that route.