Shapelock DIY N/P reducing Pellets or Nuking the tank...

[jason2459]

seems like it degrades faster?

Don't know, never used the NP Biopellets before but could be. Sounds like these shapelock are more similar to the WM EcoBak. They are smaller then the NP Biopellets and don't seem to need near as much flow and needs a less amount of the product per gallon. I believe they do consume phosphates pretty well. Nothing 100% proven here but does look very promising.

 

[jason2459]

Adding this for my own interestes and ease of access

Solid Carbon Dosing / Pellets

Warner Marine EcoBAK
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1847060

Reef Interests' N/P Bio Pellets
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1694529

Instant Ocean Biopolymer nitrate Reducer
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1766100


Possible DYI (AKA. Use at your own risk)
Shapelock Pellets
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1830864


Friendly Plastics/shapelock and other polycaprolactone (PCL) etc. discussion (no dedicated threads yet)
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1766100 (through out)

 

[Flavordsm]

So I put the friendly plastic in my tank. I'll let you know if I get any bad results or my corals act funny. I have a duncan too so I'll be watching to see if it closes up any. I soaked them in vinegar first for a few minutes and then rinsed them in RO/DI. I don't have a huge algae problem or anything like that.. just looking for better tank clarity and whatnot

 

[jason2459]

So I put the friendly plastic in my tank. I'll let you know if I get any bad results or my corals act funny. I have a duncan too so I'll be watching to see if it closes up any. I soaked them in vinegar first for a few minutes and then rinsed them in RO/DI. I don't have a huge algae problem or anything like that.. just looking for better tank clarity and whatnot

Any reactions at all? I'm thinking my Duncan was more ****ed off about the reduction in phosphates happening so quickly. Don't really think it was anything in the shapelock but could be. I just checked my phosphates and they came back as a flat 0.0!! :dance: I believe I'm also noticing a reduction in algae. My clowns will be ****ed at me along with most the other fish if it all goes away which I doubt it will.

Things are changing on my setup because I just got a job offer I couldn't refuse and we will be moving out of state. For a little while until our current house sells my wife will be in charge of the tank. So, I've simplified it from it's already simplified setup.

All she'll have to do is feed it daily a fozen cube and clean off the glass. Already have a autofeeder dumping pellets in every day at noon. She'll do a simple water change and fill the ATO reservoir once a week. I already have marks on the back side of the tank so she knows where to drain it to and fill back to the bottom of the top trim. The ATO reservoir has a float valve so in case she forgets, like I do, to turn off the water it will stop itself (hopefully!).

I'm removing the skimmer for now because I certainly don't expect her to clean out that nastiness. She already complains about the smell when I do clean it. I'm adding a HOB powerfilter. I'm going to use the tetra whisper ex30 I had for the QT setup and put a polyfilter in that one and just picked up a tetra whisper ex70 and run their floss/carbon media. I took out all the bio-scrubbers that are included.

I'll get back at least once a month and will replace GFO and media out of the powerfilters. Also, will mix a new batch of salt water for the weekly water changes so the wife doesn't have to do that either. Hopefully wont have to do this for to long but who knows in this housing market.

Here's the new setup.

 

[jason2459]

Actually, in the one picture you can see that rock is becoming pretty bare. :thumbsup:

 

[Flavordsm]

No bad reactions at all so far. I don't know if I'm just being judgmental because I'm expecting something to happen but it looks like my little spots of hair algae aren't growing as fast and the water looks a little more clear. I haven't changed any routines the only difference is I added the pellets. These are pretty easy to get to tumble in the reactor. I've read the thread on n/p bio pellets and it seems like people have to have a hell of a lot more flow to get theirs to tumble. I'm running a reactor for carbon/gfo/purigen and now these pcl pellets all off the same pump (they are all in line of each other) but there is a nice boil on the top of the pellets.

 

[thebanker]

Jason, congrats on the new job. What will you be doing?

Putting the aquarium on autopilot is a tough feat to achieve. Good luck, I'll be following your thread.

 

[jason2459]

Flavordsm, that's good to hear. Seems like the smaller pellets are the way to go. They may be consumed faster but they don't seem to need near as much water flow and I would imagine allow more bacteria to remain on them to feed allowing them to work faster and more efficient. ?




Thebanke, I've really loved my current job as a Systems Engineer and also a consultant. I just got on board with an international company as an Infrastructure Architect Solutions consultant. I'll be heading up a department at one of their locations and is a big move forward in my career. Pretty exciting.

I've tried to keep my setup pretty simple . The worse thing was cleaning the scum out of the skimmer collection cup and the wife wont have to worry about that anymore. I was mostly worried about oxygen levels in the tank after removing the skimmer. Everything has still been acting normal. Bumping up the mechanical/chemical filtration with the two powerfilters has actually been doing a great job in cleaning up the water. I swapped out the skimmer for the powerfilters about four days ago now and I'm pretty impressed so far with the clarity of the water. Luckily it's only a 55g and I think I might be able to get away with this for a little while.

 

[Flavordsm]

It's been a while since I've check this or added anything to it. Just wanted to note that in spots where I had hair algae the tips are turning white and looks like it is starting to die back. Also I've noticed my skimmer is pulling a lot more thick green gunk than before. Looks like it is working to some extent. No ill effects that I have noticed to date.
:beer:

 

[jcolletteiii]

Any updates, oh pioneers of the 'DIY' N-P reducing pellet?

 

[Flavordsm]

Pellets are still on my system still running through the same TLF reactor. Skimmate is still nice a green. I have the effluent coming right to the inlet of my pump on my skimmer. I'm not sure if the pellets are too smooth, have too much flow, or a combination of both but I'm not getting the drastic results that others are getting with n/p, vertex, and ecobak. It has helped a bunch but I still have little patches of green hair algae. My husbandry could probably be a little better because I do a water change once a month and change my GAC/GFO with the water changes as well as sucking up detritus in the sump. All and all for a DIY project I'm fairly pleased with it. I haven't lost any corals I think it just needs a little more fine tuning maybe roughing up the pellets a little so bacteria can stick to them better and playing with the flow.

edit: I also have never had a bacteria bloom with the pellets. Maybe PCL isn't eaten up by bacteria as quick as n/p, vertex, and ecobak. I think if you have only a slight NO3 and PO4 problem these would be a good way to keep them in check but if you have a bunch of algae and a major problem you might need to go with the more commercial product they seem to be a little more fine tuned for the aquarium vs our little DIY pellets.

 

[jason2459]

Flavordsm you may want to try a lower flower. Looking at the WM BP they are smaller like the shapelock/friendly plastics are and doesn't need that much flow to keep them moving around.

I'd say my shapelock experiment was a success. Never had a nitrate problem but my phosphates were through the roof and I had some massive cyano problems. With the shapelock the phosphates went to undetectable levels, cyano went away, and I won a billion dollars. Okay, not the last one. I've always had some algae and it did start dieing back a little. But the algae doesn't bother me that much at all. I'm probably one of two that actually likes having some algae in their tank. :bum:

The shapelock has been out of my system though for the past few weeks as I've been moving and my tank had to be moved twice and is in it's final resting spot. I'm already noticing a small bit of cyano coming back but haven't had time to check the phosphates. I'll be getting the shapelock back online in the next couple weeks.

 

[TheFishMan65]

You can also look for polymorph from what I have read. I will be trying it shortly. If you have a local club it can be obtained from China for about $32 a kilogram (sorry don't know how many liters),

 

[thebanker]

Did you get the shapelock back online?

 

[jason2459]

Did you get the shapelock back online?

Nope not yet. But I need to. Already got some cyano rearing it's ugly head. I've been busy with a bathroom remodel but plan to get it up and running again soon.

 

[jason2459]

Alright, almost time to get this going again. I'm letting my system settle in and not change anything else as I add the shapelock. I have the sro lx-2000s back on the tank so I don't have to worry about the oxygen levels in case there's a bacterial bloom. Especially this time around because I'm going to do things slightly different.

This time around I wont be using a canister filter, mainly because it broke in the move. This time around I'll be mixing the pellets in my sand bed. As it turns out I can match very closely an experiment that is described in a patent that was pointed out by Cliff over here in this thread.

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1694529&page=117

This is what I got out of that paper:

The shapelock that I have is pretty much the size and shape of the PCL product that they are talking about. They are an oval type shape and about 3-4mm. Also, the dolomite gravel I'll be mixing it in is between 3-6mm. Mostly at the 5-6mm range.

So far from what I've read

- PCL round to oval at 4mm in size
- course substrate ~5mm in size
- Mix in to substrate around ever 6-12months
- flow is not required (I might turn off the RUGF for this then to start with)
- 60-120g of pellets to every 100l of water. (I'll have to check how many grams I have)
- can be difficult to apply in an established system
- should monitor nitrate levels at least once a month to make sure there is enough PCL product in use

...also talks about using PCL products in other ways in filter systems...


Benefits include reducing NH4+, NH3, and NO2- and also
1. stabilize carbonate hardness and indirectly pH value/range
2. release of CO2 through the oxidation of PCL
3. promotion of water plant growth
4. low to moderate reduction of phosphates


Also, looks like the end of the patent is how IO decided to create their product. Using a PCL powder to dose the system weekly. Could a person take their PCL pellets and just grind it up and do the same thing? According to this it is preferred to dose 20-80mg/l every week.

 

[jason2459]

Another change which shouldn't affect how shapelock works is about two weeks ago I finally started using fully saturated kalk in my ATO.

This is from my dead tank journal I've been keeping and pasting it here because it has the my test kit results that I want to keep track of here. Particularly the nitrate and phosphates:

I've been very impressed and very happy with the results so far. With in the first two weeks I've already achieved my goals of where I want my Calcium, Alk, and pH. pH has been consistently between 8.2 and 8.3.

Two weeks ago these were my numbers.
Salt mix: Instant Ocean
Salinity: 34ppt (just calibrated refractometer)
Temp: 80.1F (Hanna handheld probe)
pH: 7.94 (Hanna handheld probe)
ORP: 160 (ditto, I take it because it's there)
Nitrate: a light 5 (API)
p04: 0.20 (Hanna Checker) I was expecting much higher here but I guess this is why I don't have so much cyano right now.
Calcium: 380 (API)
Alk: 11dKH (API)
Mag: 1170 (Salifert)

My current numbers are Now.
Salt: Instant Ocean
Salinity: 34ppt
Temp: 81.2
pH: 8.21
ORP: 190 (lx-2000s had an impact on increasing my ORP the last time I ran it too)
Nitrate: 0
pO4: .11 (I'm sure it hasn't gone down but see some more cyano which is probably consuming it)

Calcium: 480
Alk: 11dkH (afraid this would go up but it didn't which is good)
Mg: 1260 (right on track to 1300-1400. I've done two doses of 1/4 cup Tech-M after water changes to bump it up to maintenance levels)


I'll get nitrate and phosphate readings again when I add the pellets. I'll also be watching the algae and cyano closely. They are starting to grow again pretty good. I'll also get some pictures when I add in the pellets for a visual comparison.

 

[jason2459]

Alright, it's all or nothing time! I'm going to go along with what the patent describes and place the pellets into the substrate. The patent recommends 60-120g/100l. I have about 45-50 gallons of total water which comes to about 170-190liters. If I go with the upper end of the ranges I need to put in 228g of the shapelock which is perfect.

I started out originally with 250g and currently have 247g of shapelock. So, I've mixed in 220g of it. Let me tell you it was not fun with a tank full of rock. Luckly I can now forget it and do this once every 6-12months. If this works out I can handle doing that easily. I would probably do it once every 6months with about 120g. We'll see...

Starting parameters tonight:
temp: 84f
Salinity: 34ppt
pH: 8.3
ORP: 170
Cal: 480
Alk: 11
Mg: 1340
Nitrate: 0
PO4: .29

I'm in much better shape then last time. I've never had a testable issue with nitrate but PO4 has always been high. Last time I started with off the charts >10. Yes, that is not 0.10 but 10.0. You can go back to the beginning and you'll see the massive amounts of cyano to prove it. I was run GFO the same time as the pellets and changing it out every two weeks. I got down to some awesome levels and the cyano stopped growing back.

This time around my phosphates are still in the unacceptable levels, I am getting some cyano and I have a lot of hair algae. I'm not going to run GFO this time though. Can't wait to see what happens here.

Setup:
75lbs live rock covered in hair algae

RUGF with dolomite and 220g of shapelock mixed in (around the rocks at least) I have turned the reverse flow off about two weeks ago and will keep it off for now. I guess you can say I have a plenum now.

SRO LX-2000s HOB skimmer that I was able to get going full throttle tonight which draws a massive amount of air for a HOB skimmer at 46-48scfh!

two power filters the tetra ex-70 and ex-30. I found I really like these for mechanical filtering with polyfiber and carbon.

two koralia 4's (not evolutions) ~1200gph each I think?

ATO w/ kalk

I'm doing a water change once a week of 5gallons. Before I was doing a small one once a day. I couldn't get the exact setup I had back at the other house but I can still get it done in a few minutes.

Dose magnesium (Tech-M) with water change using IO.

I think that's it that pertains to what could effect this trial.

I'm uploading some starting pictures. I haven't touched or cleaned anything in the tank for the past two weeks except the glass and water change.

 

[jason2459]

Starting pictures

Right side:

Middle:

Left side:

Gravel

 

[thebanker]

Jason, good luck. Why did you decide to shut down the RUGF? I would think that with the PCL pellets in the substrate, the RUGF would provide a slow laminar flow through the pellets.

Just last Wednesday I jumped off the PCL train and onto the biopellet bandwagon. I went with the Vertex brand pellets. They're 3-4mm in size, a tad smaller than the N/P biopellets so they fluidize nicely. So far, no major changes or improvements to coral.