Shell Rot & O.scyllarus(Peacocks)

Kharn

MANTISMAN
G'day all

I hope this clears up any questions about Shell Rot & O.scyllarus, effectively it is a compilation of responses from Dr.Caldwell to many others (including myself) rolled in to 1 piece I separated it into 2 major areas that seem to be to of the most major concerns...Lighting & Housing.
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LIGHTING
I was probably the first to suggest that strong illumination was correlated with "shell disease" in O. scyllarus. That was 10 years ago.

When a large male would start to show discoloration, I would turn off the lights, up feeding and add supplements, add uv sterilization and provide a longer, darker burrow made of black pvc. I also upped water changes, particularly when nitrate levels were high. More often than not the animal improved after a couple of molts.

I also noted that the 'disease" appeared to be contagious, infecting other animals in the tank. Of course this was only a correlation. The same factors causing the disease in the first animal could be causing it in subsequent animals if those factors weren't eliminated. I also reported that large males captured in the wild often had signs of shell disease and that animals that were slow to move through the export process also were more likely to show signs of cuticle problems, particularly if damaged in fights. Much of what I was suggesting was common sense. Stress weakens the immune system and an animal without a good burrow and in bright light is stressed. Also, speed up molting and the cuticle disease has less time to erode and penetrate the exoskeleton.

Ten years later we know no more about the causes, prevention and cure of shell disease than we did then. I don't know of a single study that has isolated and characterized the infection or that has systematically treated it with antibiotics or anti-fungal medications.

I keep dozens of O. scyllarus each year and loses due to shell disease are now rare so I will keep doing what I have recommended. However, when asked for specifics, without scientific studies I can't provide much except to hark back to good food, good water quality and less stress which should be the goal to keeping any stomatopod.

Last time I went diving with O. scyllarus, they were living in areas with rich hard and soft coral cover at depths between 5 and 30 m. I rarely find O. scyllarus shallower than 5 m and they seem to peak in numbers at 10-20 m. If you choose light intensity and spectrally appropriate to those depths, the animals should be fine as long as they have dark burrows to spend most of their time. And yes, there are lots of studies on ambient light characteristics on coral reefs at depths down to 30 m. I've spent many boring dives with Tom Cronin and Justin Marshall taking that data.

I kept my first O. scyllarus 39 years ago and I would estimate that I have had in the lab over 500 since then. Until I figured out that light was a critical factor in the shell rot syndrome, most of the larger individuals developed shell rot. Now we use no aquarium lighting, just normal fluorescent (cool) lighting. Over the last several years, it is rare that I lose any except the largest males to shell rot.

Blue is more natural for the stomatopod, but the light spectrum is also going to influence the microorganisms that infect the cuticle and there I don't have a clue. Given that I've had success with cool light, that is what I would use.

Roy
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HOUSING

Without knowing the specifics of the tank and substrate available, I'm going to make a general comment - it is generally better to go with pvc. The reason is that most tanks are not large enough and do not have the correct mix of substrates to allow the O. scyllarus to build a suitable burrow that is sufficiently dark and that provides the needed mechanical contact of a tight-fitting, long burrow. Most people through in some live rock on top of a couple of inches of clean coral sand and expect the stomatopod to build a suitable burrow. It will do its best, but usually all it ends up with is a cave under a rock. The burrows that the O. scyllarus dig in the field are just slightly larger in diameter than the animal and about five times their length. This provides a dark burrow that also keeps the cuticle clean.

Small O. scyllarus (under 2 inches) can easily build their own burrow under a piece of coral rubble and end up with burrows that look just like those that they construct in the field - an inch in diameter and six inches long. However, with larger animals, it is difficult to give them a deep enough gravel bed with enough different sized pieces of rubble to build a natural, dark burrow. They will do the best they can with lumps of coral rubble, but rarely are these burrows really dark and they are not smooth on the inside like a natural burrow. They do much better in a reasonably tight fitting, long pvc pipe. You might consider them "ugly", but with a little work you can bury the pipe and fit rubble around the entrances to camouflage them. Also, I don't know where the idea of constructing "galleries" of pvc tunnels for O. scyllarus. In the field, they dig simple u-shaped straight burrows 3-5 times their length.

Roy
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By simply reading this you can learn a lot about O.scyllarus & Shell Rot as I said above it is all from the man you would want to ask about the disease anyway so hopefully this thread should answer most questions.

P.S. Not hard to find, all I did was type in 'Peacock Shell Rot' into google, Reef Central was the first selection and had multiple choices within it, clicked on half a dozen in separate windows and found the responses from Dr.Caldwell but, this sums it up and makes it even easier.
 
Thanks Kharn for posting this.

I just picked up my first peacock mantis shrimp, looked perfectly healthy but once in aquarium I noticed a small 1/2cm shell rot at its head.

Good thing it is in a 5x2x2 so the quality water with uv steriliser, quality food and supplements he should be ok, fingers crossed!
 
Additional Notes

UV STERILIZER

Frankly, I find them a pain. The bulbs don't last that long and I usually forget to change them. However, my 100 gal tanks are fitted with 15watt filters with a flow rate of around 400 gph.

Occasionally, if a large male develops shell rot, I will isolate it into a 20 gal system running an 8 watt UV filter. It seems to help.

UV is perhaps more important in smaller, less stable systems.

If I had to choose between skimming and UV, I would choose the skimmer.

I keep O. scyllarus in some of my reef tanks with good results. The larger the system and more complex the structure (providing dark burrows), the better.

I think this is all about water quality.

The more stable the aquarium and better the water parameters, the less likely the animals are to develop shell rot.

I suspect that shell rot is more of a problem for Europe and the US because of the stresses of shipping. The O. scyllarus that we get here in the US have been in the pipeline longer experiencing poorer conditions than the animals you receive in Australia.

Roy
 
It's possible that the bacterias that come together to form shell rot are not able to thrive deeper where the peacocks live with little of the light spectrum reaching down there and when you put them in an aquarium with bright lighting it allows for it to infect the cuticle.
 
Now I'm confused...Dr. Roy states he keeps O. scyl in larger reef tanks. Reef tank to me means corals, high lighting etc.

???
 
Now I'm confused...Dr. Roy states he keeps O. scyl in larger reef tanks. Reef tank to me means corals, high lighting etc.

???

Where did you read that? I read that he keeps no lighting on his lab tanks because of the problems with shell rot that he encountered in the past.
 
Additional Notes

UV STERILIZER

Frankly, I find them a pain. The bulbs don't last that long and I usually forget to change them. However, my 100 gal tanks are fitted with 15watt filters with a flow rate of around 400 gph.

Occasionally, if a large male develops shell rot, I will isolate it into a 20 gal system running an 8 watt UV filter. It seems to help.

UV is perhaps more important in smaller, less stable systems.

If I had to choose between skimming and UV, I would choose the skimmer.

I keep O. scyllarus in some of my reef tanks with good results. The larger the system and more complex the structure (providing dark burrows), the better.

I think this is all about water quality.

The more stable the aquarium and better the water parameters, the less likely the animals are to develop shell rot.

I suspect that shell rot is more of a problem for Europe and the US because of the stresses of shipping. The O. scyllarus that we get here in the US have been in the pipeline longer experiencing poorer conditions than the animals you receive in Australia.

Roy
 
So Dr. Caldwell is perhaps saying that nano reef systems are not good. If you're going to have a reef tank with a Peacock, it should be large and have lots of dark hiding spaces for him.
 
Your missing the point that I was trying to make out...

If your water quality is 'up to scratch' and by that I don't know what it means or what that quality is....then your Peacocks should be fine and thrive within a tank that has lighting so long as.

There are plenty of completely dark cavities for the stomatopod to rest within.

It is easier to maintain an O.scyllarus in a tank that has NO lighting on it since from what I can tell, lighting is the catalyst to help the disease spread but in a tank with GREAT water quality the bacteria wouldn't be in the water to begin with so the lights cannot boost what isn't there.

I hope this makes in understanding.

Water Quality before Lighting!

Does it mean you can now turn your lights on inside your Peacock tanks I don't know what your waters quality is like so I cannot comment. Me personally the knowledge of maintaining them easier in a dark tank is the option for me rite now but, once I have turned my stands from Simple Canister filter runs systems and into full blown refugiums with skimmers and reactors....THEN I will turn the lights on in my O.scyllarus tank and even then I will watch with a very keen eye to see if any shell rot appears.

Hope this helps
 
So Dr. Caldwell is perhaps saying that nano reef systems are not good. If you're going to have a reef tank with a Peacock, it should be large and have lots of dark hiding spaces for him.

O.scyllarus should NOT be kept in tanks less then 100L too me that is NOT Nano and no O.scyllarus should be in a Nano for that reason alone.

But yes the general theory is...

More water volume means more stability in it.
 
Where did you read that? I read that he keeps no lighting on his lab tanks because of the problems with shell rot that he encountered in the past.

It makes sense in multiple ways to NOT have lighting on the tank.

Firstly Dr.Caldwells job isn't about "How to keep a stomatopod at home".

It would be beneficial to NOT have lighting on his tanks for....

A) Save money on lighting, he would have hundreads of tanks which could mean hundreads of lights...that's expensive.

B) His are research animals NOT display animals no need for light to show things off / have things grow etc.

C) We do KNOW that Light and Shell Rot run hand in hand...with so many tanks holding so many stomatopods why add more risk to them succumbing to the disease.

In a researchers point of view there is no need for lights you add them when you need to (mostly for your research). From an 'at home' point of view yeah most people have lights on their tanks and want to add other life because it's on display something to 'show off' but one would want very good water quality if they plan on keeping a stomatopod in a reef long term.

I assume The 'Reef' tank(s) that Dr.Caldwell kept his O.scyllarus in would of had that great water quality etc that allowed them to thrive within the lit environment, his resources far out match anyone else on here, whether it knowledge or equipment.
 
I really hope people don't just see this as a simple...."OH PEACOCKS CAN LIVE IN TANKS WITH LIGHTS..." situation...

O.scyllarus can thrive in a tank that has no lighting above it and in abnormally low quality water that other things normally succumb to (fish etc.) seeing a healthy O.scyllarus in a tank like this and just flicking on the lights after reading this post would be a dire mistake...

Each of my current stands is filtered by Live Rock & a large External Canister filter...that's it, the water quality in it as far as Marine goes would be below normal quality since a canister filter is one of the last/cheapest resorts and only for very simple systems.

Because of this my O.scyllarus tanks lights will remain off until I upgrade my filtration and am comfortable knowing the water should be up to spec for there to be no "Shell Rot causing disease" floating about waiting to multiply under the lights.

Skimmers, refugiums, reactors & possibly even UV sterilizers will be used to help me get that Above Average Water Quality which will then allow me to turn the O.scyllarus tanks lights on.
 
I would actually like to add on my experiences with this (although it may not attribute much to the study)

So the details of the system are as follows as accurately as possible:
60 Gallon Cube (24x24x25)
CPR Aeroforce HOB Skimmer
1x Koralia 4
1x Old Unknown brand heater w/ Controller @ 75F w/ a +3 fluctuation in temperature
4 Bulb T5HO Light w/ 4 Gieseman Bulbs (2 white, 1 Aqua, 1 Pink) changed once yearly.
Rena Xp4 Canister Filter Filled to the brim with Seachem De-nitrate + Rox .8 Carbon in panty hose tied at the end (Cheap and prevents the media from ending up everywhere)
Photo Period: 12PM-6PM Run on a timer
Age of tank = 2 years, ~ 40 lbs of LR w/ ~1.5-3" sand bed
Parameters via Salifert
Ammonia:0
Nitrite:0
Nitrate:40ppm
Ca:~400
Mg:~1400
Alk:~9
pH: ~7.8-8.3 (Based on lighting schedule)
p04: ~.04+ depending on when I do WC

Stock list:
1x Sailfin Tang
1x Porcupine Puffer (Odd choice, but avoids both mantises)
1x Kliens Butterfly
1x Coral Beauty Angel
1x Zebra Mantis Shrimp (added due to the thought of the previous resident mantis passing only to find out that it had an excessively long molt)
1x Peacock Mantis (Specimen has been around after the system was about 8 months old due to original tank leaking)
5x Asst Bubble Anemones (Varying sizes)
1x Pin Cushion Urchin
X Snails (Turbo, Nassarius)
X Hermits
2x Chocolate Seastars
*Replacement of eaten Inverts go through Tank Transfer Method before introduction*
Feeding:
My peacocks diet consist primarily of hermit crabs and bivalves (Cockles + Mussels) with a periodic supplement of squid, oyster meat, freeze dried shrimp and NLS pellets that end up on the bottom near her home.

Sourcing:
Hitchhiker on Fresh Box of Bali Liverock @ ~2.5-3" and has since grown to about 4.5" in the past almost 1.5 years in the current system.

Hypothesis:
-Due to depth, lighting may not affect specimen as much as it would in the more common 12",15",18" settings
-Lots of dark areas in rock work to avoid lighting (Although specimen is very interactive and ventures out often in search of food)
-Specimen was never exposed to the Bacteria/Fungus that causes Shell rot (idea supported by the fact that UV seems to help although unlikely)
-Specimen possibly never touched various suppliers water other than when the rock was being harvested and shipped (potential harborer of said Bacteria/Fungus)
-Water Quality Affects condition of specimen (Far from Reef, but decent for FOWLR if you ask me, but what would be considered horrible for these animals?)
-Diet (Good diet may ward off shell rot, but not necessary sure if it outright prevents it)
-Females Less Prone to Shell Rot (Probably me talking out of my rear, but I do recall reading larger specimens developing SR much more frequently)
-Insignificant time period of study (Once again from reading, larger specimens are more prone to Shell Rot than smaller ones)

So while I would definitely agree, adding any photosensitive mantis to a tank with reef lighting is a bad idea or even worse, recklessly adding lights to a mantis system could spell disaster. Based on my single sample however, shell rot doesn't seem to affect the specimen "at least based on what I see" with this current lighting combination and photo period used for anemones.

grr.jpg

Tank Shot

20120924_172654.jpg


Specimen first added after original holding tank leaked (Female)

grr2.jpg

Close up of Zebra Mantis Tankmate (Male)

20120924_180218.jpg

20120924_180514.jpg

Specimen ~1.5 years later including about a 2-3 month? disappearance (possibly a difficult molt)
 
I'm not sure if I am reading or seeing things correctly...but I'd like to start off by saying, great read. Information is good and the more informative the better.

Having something up for me, is there a divider in the tank, or are both L.maculata and O.scyllarus in the same tank ?

Maybe I misread but did you say something about an O.scyllarus going missing ?

Thanks for the input, all is useful to any :).
 
There is no divider, however the L. Maculata doesn't leave it's area in the front for anything other than nearby edibles (All fish know to avoid it or have learned the hard way earning scratches or puncture wounds) while the O. Scyllarus never ventures near the L. Malculata or shows interest in engaging it (possibly may have lost a battle before, or there is enough territory between them due to one being a burrower resulting in no need to fight)

I would say around December or so of last year is when I thought my O. Scyllarus passed on and it's remains were eaten by the puffer or something since I didn't see it nor did it showed signs of being anywhere for ~2-3 months (No visible blockage for molting)
After the addition of the L. Maculata did it show up about 1 week later to my surprise (which is why I assumed it was a difficult molt possibly)
 
I'd say your putting a LOT at risk...

O.scyllarus and L.maculata in the same tank with a puffer fish, I'm sorry but I cannot see this as something someone should do, I will not flame you, after all I perform things that make my own country cast me out, but...I can't say I want to 'help' you...

Either way, thank you for the information, I just hope you don't create a craze for others wanting to do the same only for bad things to come from it :(.

It's like keeping Lions & Tigers in the same enclosure but with a grizzly bear to.

Like many people say on here who ask for things that will go with their Stomatopods..."it work till it doesn't".
 
I'd say your putting a LOT at risk...

O.scyllarus and L.maculata in the same tank with a puffer fish, I'm sorry but I cannot see this as something someone should do, I will not flame you, after all I perform things that make my own country cast me out, but...I can't say I want to 'help' you...

Either way, thank you for the information, I just hope you don't create a craze for others wanting to do the same only for bad things to come from it :(.

It's like keeping Lions & Tigers in the same enclosure but with a grizzly bear to.

Like many people say on here who ask for things that will go with their Stomatopods..."it work till it doesn't".

Don't worry Kharn, no offense taken and I completely understand your viewpoint on the subject.
To my defense however, the Peacock had it's own home until it leaked = emergency re-home to the only place it could go in at the time, although by no means a responsible move (this is an office tank, btw not at home like my main tanks)
The Zebra was admittedly a completely reckless move on my part though and I full heartedly agree, with not endorsing for others to follow my unusual situation.

For people considering to attempt this, simply think of a Clown Trigger w/tank mates it's not a question of if, it's When will it go ballistic and how much do you value the rest of what's in your tank.

My only hope from sharing my experience is to help others get to a better understanding of what potentially causes/why shell rot occurs in certain situations and I also hope that others will NOT follow my undeniably poor example of tankmates will only make things worse.
 

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