shipping zoas x-country 1st class mail

[pop0tart]

Yep. Bought some fire and ice zoas from ebay for 16 dollars shipped last week. It seemed like a good deal until I saw they shipped Monday from Cali via 1st class post and will likely arrive tomorrow (Saturday) in PA. Funny thing is that I ordered dry goods 2 days later that arrived last Saturday via prioity mail.

Anyway, these zoas will have been shipped for 5 days via 1st class mail likely with no heat pack (would a heat pack even last that long, anyway?).

Anyway, would anyone be willing to comment on whether this is an acceptable shipping method and speculation for acclimation technique would also be greatly appreciated.

Thanks!

Here is the listing, btw:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=251168260142

 

[debincalif]

I don't know... that's a long time in transit. I've never dealt with that seller on eBay. Do they have a quicker shipping option? I've ordered from Reef Pets and Austin Aqua Farms on eBay and they ship priority overnight (for considerably higher rates, of course).

I'm curious to see how the zoas fare... keep us posted!

 

[rogersb]

The time shouldn't be a real problem I don't think, it's the cold. I put zoas in the sump to get rid of algae for that long and they are fine. I think Organism has said in the past that the thing to do is put them in an area of high flow. Probably lower light, but he definitely said high flow and he has a very good success rate that way.

 

[organism]

If they're in water then they're for sure dead already, opening the bag is gonna make your house smell like a dead whale farted in it. If they're damp shipped then they're most likely dead, honestly that's a really irresponsible way for the seller to ship corals and I'm really surprised they even offered that kind of shipping. Like rogersb said, give them really good flow and they'll have a shot

Either way don't stress it, if they die then the guy will have to refund you or you can file a credit card claim.

 

[benjaminspades]

Depends on how they ship. I've successfully shipped for 5 days. But then again I take extra precautions and pay attention to where you are and the weather there..


That being said the killing factor is the following:
1. live rock
2. temperature
3. type of water

let me explain. Liverock Eats oxygen! live rock is probably the single largest consumer of oxygen in your tank right now. NO its not the fish No its not the corals. it is the live rock.

2. temperature in the extremes will kill corals.

3. I do not use old water from your tank to ship. Bactieral blooms kill corals in your water. thats essentially what happens to bad shippers like acros and xenias. The mucous they emit creates an algae bloom that eats up all the oxygen in the water and kills your coral.

I have posted further reading and references AND EXAMPLES to back myself up:

http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-11/eb/index.php

enjoy!

 

[goodtimes]

I have ordered several things from the same person on ebay. I had zoas and mushrooms shipped and they arrived in great condition and were open within a hour of being in my tank. However, each time he shipped on Monday and I recieved them on Wednesday.

 

[pakrat]

I purchased from that buyer two zoas for what seemed like a kick *** deal. It shipped on monday and I received them the following monday. I thought for sure as I was going to get a stinking box of death.

What I ended up with was a small box with two containers in it filled with 20-30ml, 1.016sg water, wrapped in a lot of bubble wrap and with a cooling pack in it. One zoa made it after being closed for 3 days and is looking like a champ. The other was DOA and the polyps were though not a stinking mess, not looking well either.

After sending a pic in, the seller offered me a choice of a refund or a reship of the same zoa. I chose to have him send me another. No extra charge, no inquisition, quick response. I'm waiting for my replacement as I type this (fingers crossed). Should note that if this one doesn't make it, that's it, no third chance, so I am taking somewhat of a gamble.

From my experience I'd say its hit or miss due to the longer ship time, but the seller is imo very reasonable.

 

[pop0tart]

I purchased from that buyer two zoas for what seemed like a kick *** deal. It shipped on monday and I received them the following monday. I thought for sure as I was going to get a stinking box of death.

What I ended up with was a small box with two containers in it filled with 20-30ml, 1.016sg water, wrapped in a lot of bubble wrap and with a cooling pack in it. One zoa made it after being closed for 3 days and is looking like a champ. The other was DOA and the polyps were though not a stinking mess, not looking well either.

After sending a pic in, the seller offered me a choice of a refund or a reship of the same zoa. I chose to have him send me another. No extra charge, no inquisition, quick response. I'm waiting for my replacement as I type this (fingers crossed). Should note that if this one doesn't make it, that's it, no third chance, so I am taking somewhat of a gamble.

From my experience I'd say its hit or miss due to the longer ship time, but the seller is imo very reasonable.

What's reasonable about using the worst shipping method possible for live animals and reshipping till you get a live one? Like I said, I would have never ordered if I had known. I can't remember the last time I received a parcel via 1st class mail, let alone a live critter. What does priority cost..a dime more?

 

[benjaminspades]

What's reasonable about using the worst shipping method possible for live animals and reshipping till you get a live one? Like I said, I would have never ordered if I had known. I can't remember the last time I received a parcel via 1st class mail, let alone a live critter. What does priority cost..a dime more?

So true. IDK why you would want to risk it though from a business point of view... Shipping is EXPENSIVE to say the least.

Now you have to ship twice for 16 dollars? lol thats silly.

 

[TL1000RSquid]

I bought from that seller over the summer, I'm in NY, shipped with no cold pack in august everything was DOA when it arrived but the seller did give a full refund.

 

[pakrat]

With regard to what is "reasonable" I will clarify I did not mean to comment on the "responsibility" of his shipping methods. The duration of his shipping methods clearly will and does cause losses, as I explained that in my previous experience with him. He ships livestock in a way that is most profitable to him while offering his customers the lowest possible product cost. His shipping method produces a higher percentage of losses, but that marginal loss is made up by gains in reduced cost and by volume. He is essentially the low cost competitor by the way he operates.

As a customer, I am perfectly fine with paying $16.95 for a "Fire & Ice" frag with free shipping and taking a chance if it gets to me alive or not. If it gets to me alive, I get a cheap frag, if not I get a refund or reship. Personally I would rather take that chance than purchase for example from www.liveaquaria.com for an equivalent "Fire & Ice" for $64.99 plus $34.99 for overnight shipping. I simply cannot afford the latter.

In response to your original request for comment if his shipping method is acceptable. IMO, yes it is. I reason that if his assertion that his frags are aquacultured are true, than his methods are no more destructive to the environment or the industry than any other participant. I would go further to say that lowering the cost of entry into reef husbandry and promoting the purchase of aquacultured organisms is a positive one, and one that I support.

 

[Mr Neon]

I bought the same zoas from the eBay seller the op asked about. They came in about 4 days from purchasing. I did a slow acclimation and they were ok. I had them for a month now and noticed some growth.
It is taking a chance and this seller does seem.to state everything up front. I've notice that he also seems to only sell certain corals and zoas that may be more harder and able to survive the longer shipping times.

 

[pop0tart]

I stand by my statement that snail mailing live animals cross country is irresponsible. The zoas I received are case in point. They arrived at the post office after my mail carrier delivered the day's mail, so I called the post office and asked if they would allow me to pick up the package instead of waiting till Monday. They agreed, and I got the zoas and the bag smelled and they weren't looking too hot, but I tossed them into the tank anyway. Today, some of the polyps were covered in a brown slime. None had opened. My next question is this:

How do I tell if these zoas are dead? Right now they look a bit worse than a closed healthy colony, but aren't a ball of slime yet.

Thanks for the input

 

[pop0tart]

As far as this seller goes, I think 20 dollars shipped for a frag is still a decent deal-certainly much better than sending a coral to its death via snail mail. I'd buy off of him again so long as it was shipped priority. Priority almost always takes 2 days IME, even from California.

 

[organism]

With regard to what is "reasonable" I will clarify I did not mean to comment on the "responsibility" of his shipping methods. The duration of his shipping methods clearly will and does cause losses, as I explained that in my previous experience with him. He ships livestock in a way that is most profitable to him while offering his customers the lowest possible product cost. His shipping method produces a higher percentage of losses, but that marginal loss is made up by gains in reduced cost and by volume. He is essentially the low cost competitor by the way he operates.

If we take ethics entirely out of the equation then yes, that model works. On the other hand, this guy is more than happy to put the lives of the corals that we all work really hard to keep alive in jeopardy so that he can garner up a few extra sales. I'm guessing you would be as 100% ok with this if he were shipping puppies in cardboard boxes that had a 30-40%ish chance of dying right?

This guy is everything that's wrong with the hobby, and even more generally everything that's wrong with businesses putting profit before the life and welfare of what you're selling. If this guy were in any other part of the pet trade there is a very good possibility he'd be looking at some jail time along with some massive fines, but because what he's selling goes in fish tanks he's ok to just keep at it. Supporting this kind of business model is only going to help it spread, kill it now by buying from people who have ethics and a conscience.

 

[pop0tart]

I am not entirely sure where I stand on that one. If there were ever a species that skirted the line between plant and animal, coral are it. The zoas that arrived DOA were a few heads genetically identical to a colony that is likely thriving, so what was lost may be analogous to when I cut a "baby" from a spider plant. That "baby" could have been a new plant on its own, or I could just toss it knowing that the mother plant is going to make more genetic clones.

If a RBTA splits and one is given away and dies, we still have what we started with: one RBTA.

Obviously that attitude doesn't apply to fish.

 

[organism]

I guess the long and the short of it is that some of us are opposed to killing things to save some cash, and some of us aren't.

 

[AkumaZeto]

Pics of said colony?

 

[pop0tart]

Sure. here they are looking a little dark and slimy

<a href="http://s1268.beta.photobucket.com/user/pop1tart/library/" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1268.photobucket.com/albums/jj563/pop1tart/P1010066-1.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"/></a>

 

[mkbtank]

Update?