Should I even start....

[boshk]

Hello All

Basically I started a freshwater tank 125L (33 gallon) about 3 months ago.
Its a semi planted, no CO2, 'starter kit' tank from Juwel.
Not long after, from reading forums, I setup a QT 8g, which atm is in use.
I enjoy it a lot, still researching and reading up on a lot of stuff including saltwater and it has me very interested

SW seems like a massive step forward from Freshwater and even Hi-tech planted tanks.

I wouldn't say they are contradicting advice online, but there are suggestion a simple Nano fowlr, no sump and maybe HOBs can work well and on the other end of the spectrum a sump, skimmer, reactors, refugium, ATO etc are needed.

My biggest concern is.......if I do start a second tank and its a FOWLR, am I getting myself into something which I don't really know much about and more importantly have the time and resources for.

I'm not too worried about the cycling theory or livestocks, that can be research while the tank is cycling.

This is the research I have done so far for it and my concerns:

Money-yes, I know its going to cost at least 4x the amount...minimum

Tank-so called starter kits or plug & play like the Red Sea C130s or Reefer Nano are convenient, allows for upgrades but $$$
I could purchase a simple 40g breeder size and try and DIY my own sump etc but I think it would take way too much time.

Heaters, Cir pumps, Wave makers, Lights I am familiar with.
Protein skimmer, yes, 99% would say get the best you can afford.
Reactors.......do ALL SW hobbyists use these?
Refugium with Chaeto......why? cant the live rock, mech filter, chem filter, protein skimmer deal with it?
ATO-so I don't need to pour distill water into the tank directly?

and finally....RO/DI water....my biggest concern..
I live in Hong Kong, I live in a flat so space is limited so I can't have massive storage tanks to store the RO/DI water.

I asked one of the biggest reef aquarium shop in HK and when I passed the question, "don't I need to use RO/DI water?" they said no, tap is fine BUT it depends what you want to keep. They continued that if its that specific, you need to rebalance the minerals in the water to the exact specifications of the coral or fish etc....everyday.
Naturally, I asked if I can buy RO/DI water from them, no was the answer.
I think I would probably have to import a unit if I plan to use RO/DI water.
This is my biggest concern....'do I need it' and 'how do I go about it'

Sorry for the wall of text

Any opinions or suggestions?

(ordered that New Marine Aquarium book, so will read that when it arrives)

 

[moatdaddy]

I have run fish only tanks with no sumps and canister filters on back with no issues. Poop will collect in the tank and canister. Siphon and clean it out. Do water changes. Cheap led lights from China and if you have the 40b your pretty close to done. I have lowered salinity on fish for ich before and they did fine. My point is with NO coral a fowl is far less expensive, time sensitive, and most importantly forgiving. About the only time I would recommend cheap api tests is for fowl. Just have extra salt on hand for water changes and NO tap water.

 

[Jade5051]

My biggest concern is.......if I do start a second tank and its a FOWLR, am I getting myself into something which I don't really know much about and more importantly have the time and resources for.

Sounds like you probably don't have time or resources for both tanks.

Money-yes, I know its going to cost at least 4x the amount...minimum

The tank will cost you around $30-$50 per gallon.

Reactors.......do ALL SW hobbyists use these?

The majority of people use these especially on sumped and larger systems. Some people find ways around them.

Refugium with Chaeto......why? cant the live rock, mech filter, chem filter, protein skimmer deal with it?

Don't need a refugium but they can provide assistance with nutrient export/fixing and breeding pod populations. Yes, you can just use LR, mechanical, chemical and skimmer.

ATO-so I don't need to pour distill water into the tank directly?

ATO makes like easier...much much easier!

and finally....RO/DI water....my biggest concern..
I live in Hong Kong, I live in a flat so space is limited so I can't have massive storage tanks to store the RO/DI water.

This is my biggest concern....'do I need it' and 'how do I go about it'

I use 5 gallon buckets but that won't be effective on large tanks. Yes, you need RODI water not sure how you are going to get it.

Any opinions or suggestions?

If you were to get into this what would be your budget and how much time could you devote to it on a weekly basis?

 

[gone fishin]

Since your in Hong Kong I do not know what it costs to set up a tank and operate it. I will say that I operated a 29g or 110L tank successfully with the following. Live rock, aragonite substrate, heater, a couple small powerheads, A hob filter to run some carbon and a 2 bulb T5HO light. The tank consisted of a few fish and some mushrooms, leather and LPS coral. I eventually got tired of seeing the equipment in the tank and made a sump.

I would suggest also using a RO/DI unit but then again I do not know what the water quality is like in your part of the world. I will dispute your LFS that using RO/DI will cause you to rebalance all the minerals. A quality salt mix and RO/DI water will do this for you.

I really do not think you would need reactors or a fuge on a smaller tank unless your going to be keeping SPS coral. This would require another discussion on equipment. If you wanted an ATO the I would suggest looking into a 5g/ 20L bucket.

I would suggest looking up the minimum equipment I listed above and see if that fits into your budget. As far as upkeep figure doing a 10% weekly water change to get an idea of how much water and salt will be required. I hope this helps some good luck just my 2 cents.

 

[CStrickland]

What Tony said
Also, while a fowlr tank is easier, and less demanding of perfect water, one downside is that you only have fish in it. It would be a good idea to have a realistic idea of your fish choices before you begin since sw tanks are much less crowded than fw ones. Www.liveaquaria.com is easy to browse fish at, and they tell you how much tank each needs. For a 30-40 gallon you are in the range of 4-5 smaller fish I think, but it depends on the temperament of the fish a lot.

 

[rjjr1963]

The tank will cost you around $30-$50 per gallon.

Those numbers are pretty accurate for the 180 I'm setting up. I estimate 30/gal and that's without fancy lights, a controller or manufactured sump.

 

[boshk]

Thanks guys for the info.

I did a quick estimate too and its as Jade5051 said, US50/gallon.

The hardest part is the RO/DI unit I think. I took a quick look at US Amazon and quite a few do ship to HK for around 10-20US. Only concern is the fitting...

I'll go ask at a few more reef shops and inquire about RO/DI units and grab myself a TDS meter to check my water

Bottled distilled water would get way too $$$$ right?

 

[boshk]

What Tony said
Also, while a fowlr tank is easier, and less demanding of perfect water, one downside is that you only have fish in it. It would be a good idea to have a realistic idea of your fish choices before you begin since sw tanks are much less crowded than fw ones. Www.liveaquaria.com is easy to browse fish at, and they tell you how much tank each needs. For a 30-40 gallon you are in the range of 4-5 smaller fish I think, but it depends on the temperament of the fish a lot.

I haven't done much research into it, but initial thoughts, 2x clownfish, 1 goby, 1 cleaner shrimp or peppermint and a only few simple easy to keep corals inc a bubble-tip anemone at a later stage.

 

[moatdaddy]

Depends on price of water and size of tank. I used to do a fowl 10% change monthly. Plus evaporation. Here in USA Walmart sells 1 gallon tubs for 1$. 10$ a month is low but my changes were small because it was fish only. 20% once a month is only 4$ more. So...

 

[boshk]

Depends on price of water and size of tank. I used to do a fowl 10% change monthly. Plus evaporation. Here in USA Walmart sells 1 gallon tubs for 1$. 10$ a month is low but my changes were small because it was fish only. 20% once a month is only 4$ more. So...

Even your simple FOWLR and zero corals would require a HOB skimmer right?

So my simplest 'start-off' tank would be
30-40g tank (would u say that is the min size req if I have 3-4 fish?)
heater
simple LED or T5 light
a HOB filter (for mech and carbon filter)
2 circulation pumps (to reduce dead-spots)
1 skimmer (rated at least 100g?)
Live Sand..
and of course Live Rock or to avoid potential pests in Live Rock, opt for Dry rock and wait longer for cycling?
and use Distill water to do the water changes until I can get a RO/DI unit?

 

[A.Astore]

The nice thing about FOWLR is the fish don't care what light you use. You could put a desk lamp over the tank and they wouldn't care. As long as you have no intention of adding coral down the road, there is no reason to buy an expensive light unit. Lower end LEDs would probably be your best bet. You won't have to worry about buying bulbs and the power consumption will be low.

When we had our 55g FOWLR we only did about a 10% water change once a month and the water was fine (that was even minus skimmer but we had a small sump with no carbon). Be smart about the amount of rock you put in and use it to your advantage. Having LEDs will also help reduce some of your evaporation due to the lower amount of heat they put off.

 

[boshk]

The nice thing about FOWLR is the fish don't care what light you use. You could put a desk lamp over the tank and they wouldn't care. As long as you have no intention of adding coral down the road, there is no reason to buy an expensive light unit. Lower end LEDs would probably be your best bet. You won't have to worry about buying bulbs and the power consumption will be low.

When we had our 55g FOWLR we only did about a 10% water change once a month and the water was fine (that was even minus skimmer but we had a small sump with no carbon). Be smart about the amount of rock you put in and use it to your advantage. Having LEDs will also help reduce some of your evaporation due to the lower amount of heat they put off.

thanks!

 

[Dkuhlmann]

Since you're going with FOWLR you should get a cheap LED for a few reasons.

No bulb replacement as you would have with other lights
Lower electricity consumption
Less heat

As far as the RODI goes if you can't get a unit or have the space to store much water you can still use tap water with the addition of Prime or Amquel or similar. Many of us if not most of us that were into reefing more than 10 years ago only used tap with the addition of Amquel or Prime, some people still do to this very day!.

So if RODI is not an option you can still go with tap.

I also agree with another poster if you don't have the resources or the time you might want to wait until you have more of both. One thing about this hobby is that a budget doesn't work never has and never will. LOL Now to contradict myself: LOL It's addictive and you will find yourself wanting corals after your FOWLR is up and running so if you do setup a saltwater tank make sure you buy good lights upfront as you will save in the long run.

If I were you I'd find good quality used equipment locally and save yourself a bundle of money. Just make sure if the tank has been without water for any long period of time that they fill it with tap water and run the pumps for a while to make sure no leaks. Buying used can save you 75% or more over buying new.