should i give up on gus the gramma?

[jenwebber3]

Okay, I read all the info on Ick. My question isn't so much about treatment as whether or not I should give up. I have a royal gramma whose ick presented about 2 weeks after I got him. He was at the store for weeks, was eating, etc, and looked great, so I guess it was just latent and the stress brought it out? I don't have a QT. I've been treating with metranidazole, focus (in the food, not the tank directly), and garlic (in the tank directly and in the food). as normal, the spots come and go. my other two fish haven't had spots, which is odd, but fine with me. Coral, shrimp, snails, crabs, have all been fine during treatment. :sad2:

It's been about 3 weeks, and his recent breakout was the worst; his side fin was plastered to his body. Next day, he was fine again. just not sure how long the cycle will continue in the tank. I don't have the room or the time (I work 6 days a week) for a QT, dumb as that sounds. It's a 29-gal nano, and this is my first problem. I'm just starting to wonder if he will ever be rid of the parasite without QT, but for me to buy a QT, water, salt, buffer, heater, etc, will cost more than the gramma cost (likely more than all my fish cost combined), and more time than i have to monitor it.

Will taking him out better my chances for my other fish? Or will the ick move on to them if he's gone? it seems to be centered mostly around the gramma. Sure, I'll still treat after he's gone, to be safe, but if he's not going to get better, i wonder...the only reason I haven't gotten rid of him is a) I'm stubborn, and b)I'm cocky (i've always beaten ick in my freshwater tank and c) this gramma has an awesome disposition, not aggressive, eats really well (even being sick), etc.

I don't really have the heart to pull him...but should i?:sad2:

 

[fender4string]

The treatments you've been doing won't kill ich. Your only options are copper based treatments (cupramine is a good one and safer) or hyposalinity (the salt in the water is gradually lowered to 1.009. This shouldn't be done without a refractometer).

Here's the problem with that. Copper will kill all of your corals and inverst and using it with live rock screws up the dose as some is abosrbed. Hypo will at least kill your corals while other inverts may or may not live.

You can't beat the ich by waiting. Either the fish will be strong enough to fight it off or the infestations will continue wearing down the fish and probably killing it through stress or by causing a bacterial infection.

Also, the ich is definitely in your entire tank. The gramma isn't the only one that can get it and the cycle of infestation will continue until you decide to intervene.

I say set up a QT and pull all of your fish for treatment. You're supposed to only QT one fish at a time but since space and time is limited it'll work. It doesn't have to be expensive. It doesn't even have to be a glass QT. All you need is a container, a heater, a powerhead, and something like pvc for this fish to hide in. You could probably set it up for around $50.

Copper is a quick treatment, only taking about 2 weeks, and will definitely rid your fish of ich. Hypo is gentler but takes longer. Up to about 10 weeks. Also, you DT will need to remain fallow (i.e. fishless) for at least 8 weeks to hopefully kill off all of the ich remaining in there. Longer than 8 weeks for fallow is better.

I don't think you should think "is it worth it to try and spend time healing this fish because it was cheap." You should be more concerned about trying to heal it because it's a living thing. If you choose to buy an animal it's kind of your responsibility to try and do everything you can for it. At least that's what I think and have tried to always do.

What you do is up to you and I'm not trying to lecture. Just trying to shed light on how I, and most other aquarists (at least the tree hugging variety ), see things.

Good luck with him and let us know what happens.

 

[jenwebber3]

don't get me wrong, i'm not naive about it. you should see how upset i get when my fresh tank has a death, since my fish usually live for a long time. i get very attached to my fish. unfrotunately, the economy has sapped my time and my money and i suppose left me a bit jaded lately. i was a biology major, so i am acutely aware of life and its cycles.

do you recommend any specific type of copper? i have some aquari-sol for my fresh do you know if that will work (i'm not at home to read the label). or should i buy a marine type?

 

[fender4string]

Cupramine is copper based but is a little bit safer than other copper meds. It's easier on the fish if you accidentally dose more than is needed so that's probably the best bet. I'm not sure if the stuff you've got is ok.

Also like I said I wasn't trying to make you feel guilty so please don't take it that way. I was just kind of offering how I look at things.

Lastly, the disease forum is one of the least trafficked so if you ever have questions about fish I'd post in the reef fish forum or the beginner. There's a lot more people that will chime in to help. Maybe post this there and someone can offer another suggestion that I didn't.