Should I start a new tank??

[supraeli]

First off, I was just wondering whether anyone here uses the Glacier water vending machines outside of Safeway for thier RO water source? I went through a gradual tank crash a few months back and cannot for the life of me figure out what went wrong... Im trying to find out what went wrong before starting another tank.

I was using the Glacier water source, and just wanted to see whether that might have caused some problems, seeing as it is run through RO but not DI... but I did test it with a TDS meter and it came out less than 10ppm everytime.

I switched over to premade or natural salt water from different pet stores, after noticing my corals acting strange but it didnt help - everything in my tank quickly declined over the course of 2 months or so...

Everything in my tank appeared to test out correctly, salinity checked with a refractometer, plenty of light and current, temps were a teeny bit high, but never far from 80. Absolutely no trace of any dissolved organics at all. Thought the problem may have laid in calcium or alkalinity levels since my test kits were pretty old and inaccurate.

Now before you chastise me for being an irresponsible aquarist with bad water test kits and blaming it completely on bad water quality, consider what happened next...

I set up another smaller tank on the side, from SCRATCH, even the water was from a different source. The only thing the two tanks shared in common was live rock: I transferred live rock from the 1st tank's fuge into the 2nd new tank, just so I could check things out right away. After a week I added newly bought corals into the 2nd tank, and within 2-3 days SAME THING, corals start deteriorating like in the 1st tank!!!

Order of decline from first to last - Zoanthids first, then clove polyps, then the few SPS I had, then rics, then shrooms, then XENIA (yeah, weird that they were affected real late), then the rest including GSP, favia, lords and others.

So, I would love to start up another reef tank, but Im afraid the same thing will happen to the first 2 tanks!!! What should I do differently to ensure that nothing happens like the 1st two tanks experienced???

Just in case anyone asks, both initial tanks have been shut down and dried. Do you guys think my equipment may be tainted? Copper? Chemical introduction? But how do I figure out what is tainted and what is not?

PLEASE respond, any help would be greatly appreciated!!! I am an experienced aquarist, but am STUMPED!! I would love to start another reef, but just wanna make sure things go right this time!!THANKS!!!

 

[otterpop510]

hmmm.. don't know about your tanks deteriorating, it sounds like you were doing things right. though totally off alk could mess up your tank, it sounds like you are maintaining everything else well. don't know how much additional info can be gathered from the second tank test crashing in 2-3 days.. the first tank slowly crashing over 2 months seems more the issue. guess the normal questions then..

how long was your first tank setup? what was your water change schedule (how often? how much?)? were you buying premixed LFS saltwater and then switched recently to mixing yourself with the glacier RO water (sold outside safeway/albertsons/etc)?

don't think the water is the 'obvious' culprit as i mix my own saltwater with RO water for awhile with no problems. i have been switching off between the glacier water or my local water store water depending on which is more convienent (both RO + other stuff like carbon, uv, etc.. but no DI) for months now, as i haven't had a chance to setup a RODI unit yet. never any problems in my tank with the glacier water, and someone else tested it too as they were using it and came out with similar TDS readings as you. but maybe others with different experiences could tell you more?..

if flow, standard tests of water quality and lighting were not issues - then perhaps something chemically? if your tank was fine for years with no copper introduction, then most likely not copper. i was thinking three possibles that i would check:

1) chemical warfare inside tank, with a mixed tank of various softies, sps, lps, etc. there is increased chemical warfare. lots of people have mixed tanks, and normally not an issue of tank crash as much as not as much growth, not as good coloration, etc. though it could be an issue. did you try running carbon for a while?

2) another type of chemical released into tank. maybe cleaning spray misted into the tank while spring cleaning? kid dropped a battery or something rustable in tank?

3) could be a sandbed crash? don't know too much about this, but DSB sometimes are known to 'deplete' their ability to filtrate and crash the tank. more info about size of first tank, how long the tank has been setup, what is equipment and what is in tank (LS, LR, livestock) could be helpful if its not an obvious culprit.

just my thoughts after reading. anyone else want to chime in?

 

[supraeli]

Firstly, thanks for responding otterpop, your comments are very insightful and helpful.

Just to clarify, here are some more quantitative numbers -

tank 1 -

salinity 1.025
ammonia 0
nitrite 0
nitrate 0
PH - 8.3
calc - ~400
alk - 9dkh
temp - max 81

150W MH over 10 gallon, 8 gallon fuge reverse photoperiod 13W
20 lbs live rock from established tank
~600GPH turnover
1inch shallow aragonite sand, not too fine
established over an year, did great until it hit the 1 year mark when the problems started... up to that point lots of corals splitting and reproducing. no algae problems. WAS an open top tank for the 1st few months due to MH heat, but i live by myself - no children.


tank 2 -

salinity 1.025
ammonia 0
nitrite 0
nitrate 0
PH - 8.3
calc - ~400
alk - 10dkh
temp - max 79

40W PC over 5 gallon
8 lbs live rock from fuge of tank#1
~250GPH turnover
bare bottom tank
established for a few months, just set up to try to save the dying corals, but didnt work, because corals still died in there.

both tanks had a 5% water change 2x a week.

I suspect that something was in my live rock that may have caused the coral to die off, since thats the only thing that both tanks shared. But I have never used any copper in my tanks, no medication at all, and I started using carbon after I noticed the strange coral behaviour - no change.

 

[Psionicdragon]

you sure you didn't cook your tank???


150watts over 10 gal.. thats a lot.

polyfilter can detect if there is a chemical interaction. Blue = copper.

You could've overloaded the bioload and have a huge chemical warfare going on in your tank.

 

[gfk]

ive used glaciar water machines for the life of my tank, and i have only experienced great results.

This is using 3 different machines also

 

[dswong01]

The only way to really know if glacier water is good is to test it with a tds meter. Who know when they change and clean filters on these vending machines.

 

[Kinetic]

I use Glacier water because I'm still trying to figure out the best way to install my RO/DI, and not sure if I want to set that up yet since I may be moving soon.

So far so good, I find that sometimes the water is OK, and sometimes it's really crappy. It really varies.

I'd recommend investing in a RO/Di system and setting it up (unlike me), it saves time and you can sync it up with your auto topoff system!

I only use it for topoff water, otherwise I use harbor bay nsw.

 

[GreshamH]

Your buying water, when you have an RODI Art? Come on, it's the easiest peiece of gear you have to install, just about

 

[Kinetic]

I know! it's terrible =) I'll get to it =P

 

[raddogz]

Did you buy the tanks or rocks from a fellow reefer? They could have used copper and you would never know.

The copper will absorbed into the sealant of the tank is slowly released into the tank.

I am also wondering if because if it is an open top, might you have a neighbor that might have sprayed copper in his/her garden.

Copper is usually used to fight powdery mildew on plants. It's a spray on liquid.

 

[supraeli]

OK guys, thanks VERY much for everyone's input! I think the question is basically going to have to be filed under unsolved mysteries simply because the tanks are shut down and theres nothing I can do to test what exactly went wrong...

So I guess Ill just try again with another tank, and make sure all my equipment is cleaned thoroughly...

 

[otterpop510]

if you do have a copper concern regarding tank/lr i think using the polyfilter to test would be useful (though with trace amounts it may take a while to show 'blue') or you could also get the 'cop-away' or seachem's 'cuprisorb' or something similar which purports to pull copper out of the tank water and more porous areas of the live rock, etc.

not sure whether it works amazingly (haven't looked up reviews..), and doesn't sound like your tanks are that big so replacing lr wouldn't be that much of a big deal. but with larger tanks with 200 lb of live rock that don't want to throw everything out and just want to make sure this sounds like a good alternative. or even good alternative for soaking/running all your equipment in this if you are concerned.

also, with a tank that small definitely any type of chemical warfare in the tank (you said your corals were growing/reproducing.. not sure if this was a mixed tank, but definitely could be the culprit if it was, as most mushrooms, zoas, leathers, etc. are very chemically aggressive..) that made things go out of wack quickly.

i have heard of people having problems around the 6-12 month mark after this great 'honeymoon' period when their tanks are first setup. could be due to not enough water changes and buildup of chemicals, etc. that we cannot test for. perhaps every once in a while doing a series of 2-3 30% water changes could help that. thats what i'm doing this week as its summer time and i have some extra hours work on my tank. kinda like a 'reset' button..