johnmaloney
In Memoriam
wow I want a coldwater tank. Thank that will work in south florida?
Show off your NPS Tanks or Coldwater
- Thread starter dillagas
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Lazylivin1
In Memoriam
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12623878#post12623878 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by airinhere
Here is my Gorgonian tank that I set up in late January.
You can see more of it here
http://www.airinheresreef.com/Florida Non-photosynthetic.html
Man you got to check out this guys site, It is very interesting reading, he is really doing a great job capturing a region of the ocean as a theme for each tank.
JustinReef
New member
If you can find a way to get livestock. Its not so easy to find. I am finally making some progress through my local aquarium which specializes in coldwater tanks and has a breeding program and also through local collection myself.
Make sure you start a build thread if you do set up a coldwater tank!
Your going to need a pretty big chiller as well to keep the tank at 55 degrees in Florida! You really have to make sure the tank never gets above 57-60 max.
It would be nice to see more people keeping coldwater tanks! It just has such completely different challenges than warm water. The main one maybe being such a slow cycle/low biological filtration meaning you need a huge skimmer and denitrator really.
Oh and make sure its an acrylic tank at least 3/4" thickness.
aninjaatemyshoe
New member
I've been thinking on this problem for awhile. Has anyone ever considered plumbing in a separate tank filled with sand and live rock that is heated to tropical temps? The flow through from the cold tank to this remote tank could be slow enough that it doesn't put a major load on the chiller, yet fast enough so that it is effective in providing biological filtration for the coldwater tank.
JustinReef
New member
Thats an interesting idea. I don't know that you would even need to go all the way to tropical temperatures though, maybe just somewhere in the mid 60's would work.
I emailed Steve Weast about this problem (low biological filter) and his advice was submerged bio balls in the sump. Or I think using porous LR in your sump would work as well. Still a slow cycle of course. He said his tanks took 5 months using ammonia chloride to build up bacteria populations that would support a decent sized bio load. I have heard 3-4 months is about average for a coldwater tank. CW tanks will really test your patients!
My tank is going to be stocked much lighter that Steves because I do not plan on keeping any of the larger fish eating anemones. Or large fish for that matter. Just a Grunt Sculpin and a few Pacific Spiny Lumpsuckers.
I don't think there is any way really of getting around needing a big huge skimmer for a coldwater tank. And ideally a denitrator unless you plan on many water changes.
My problem right now has been finding a decent priced chiller that will chill to 55 degrees. Many of them only go to 65. I am hoping to be able to get away with a 1/4 HP for a 50G tank but we'll see.
aninjaatemyshoe
New member
Have you tried looking for chillers that can run entirely on an external controller? Really, the limitation is on the thermostat and not on the ability of the chiller to drop the temp below 65. If you don't already have a controller, that would add to the cost. There are some chillers out there that are less expensive than normal ones because they do not have their own controller. Such a chiller would be ideal IMO.
JustinReef
New member
Yeah you have a very good point actually. I guess it will depend on how much one would be AND the controller. I do have a controller but its being used. Good idea though. Something I will certainly look into. Thanks!
So are you thinking of a coldwater build yourself?
aninjaatemyshoe
New member
I would love to build one they are easily among the most impressive tanks I've ever seen. But, it just isn't possible in the near future. For one, I'm spending my extra cash on setting up my current tank. Secondly, I just don't live near any good source for coldwater species. Perhaps one day though...
A good temp controller like the Ranco controller will run about $150. For $220 you can get an ACJr, which will do a lot more than just control the temp.
I've actually found a chiller that requires a temp controller, but it is on eBay so I can't post it here. PM me if interested.
A good temp controller like the Ranco controller will run about $150. For $220 you can get an ACJr, which will do a lot more than just control the temp.
I've actually found a chiller that requires a temp controller, but it is on eBay so I can't post it here. PM me if interested.
JustinReef
New member
Yes finding species can be very hard. I am lucky enough to have finally found some. Its either that or collect myself but I have a fear of diving locally because its just too dark and cold for me. I did it once and don't know if I could do it again!
I have a ACjr that I am using now on my reef but might upgrade and be able to use it for a chiller. I will PM you about the ebay chiller.
Thanks!
You can also check with manufacturers on the availability of refurbished units. If they are flawed at all (sometimes they were simply returns), it is usually only cosmetic. I know that Prime and Pacific Coast Imports both offer refurbs, often at less than half price. By the way, I have a 1/3 HP Prime tower on a 120-gal that is fairly steadily maintained at 55F (it will usually break 56F when the lights are on). While I now have a thick acrylic tank, I have in the past maintained relatively thin glass tanks at very cool temps with no sweating (or very little). It seems the frequency and extent of sweating tends to be exaggerated, often by well-meaning aquarists who have never set up a temperate aquarium. I suppose the worst cases have occured where the tanks in question were kept in rooms with very high humidity.
I really suggest trying coldwater marines, especially if you really want to try something different. They are so different from tropical marines in so many ways, and equally interesting, in my humble opinion.
I really suggest trying coldwater marines, especially if you really want to try something different. They are so different from tropical marines in so many ways, and equally interesting, in my humble opinion.
JustinReef
New member
I would argue that coldwater can be MORE interesting and certainly more colorful!
Thanks for the chiller advice. I will look into that.
mariusz621
New member
my attempt to nps tank
my attempt to nps tank
This is my current set up. I have most of those corals for 4 months only and I am still learning about keeping them alive. I have spent a lot of time reading and researching various websites about keeping nps corals. I do think that with this set up I may be just lucky enough to keep it going...
thanks
my attempt to nps tank
This is my current set up. I have most of those corals for 4 months only and I am still learning about keeping them alive. I have spent a lot of time reading and researching various websites about keeping nps corals. I do think that with this set up I may be just lucky enough to keep it going...
thanks
Whalehead9
New member
Very very nice mariusz621. What and how are you feeding, and what are you using for circulation?
mariusz621
New member
Many thanks for your comments. This is all still very new. The progress and more iformation about it is here:
http://www.ultimatereef.net/forums/showthread.php?t=267075
Thanks
http://www.ultimatereef.net/forums/showthread.php?t=267075
Thanks
CapitalO
New member
Ive been playing with the idea of setting up a non-photosynthetic since I first got into the hobby. Ive come up with several ideas that I'd like to share and see what everybody thinks about them.
1.) The point that I want to highlight the most is pod (and especially microfauna) production within the tank. Ive found that feeding my fuge with meaty food, as well as phyto, makes my pod population explode. I would imagine that by excluding predators from the main tank (ie. shrimp, fish etc) could result in a refugium-like main tank where the fauna doubles as a clean up crew and food source.
If the pod population was large enough and well fed, they could potentially support the filter feeders needs via plankton production. A continuous supply of live planktonic critters would be major. In a perfect system, all of the food that your sessile feeders miss would be consumed by your fauna and processed into more food aka pods and their planktonic larvae.
Of course the big question is: how big of a population would you need to have a significant effect and is that level of production even feasible in the aquarium? The effectiveness is debatable, but I would bet you could achieve some significant results.
2.) An oversized fuge. and maybe skimmerless... If you could keep your inorganic nutrient levels low enough via a fuge with macroalgae, then I would say without a doubt -skimmerless would be the way to go. I don't have a whole lot of basis for saying this... but I would think that DOC's (that skimmers pull) would be a food source for filter feeders. Also, the skimmer is going to remove/destroy a portion of the plankton. Also, a large fuge would have obvious benefits towards the point I made in #1.
3.) A constant, one directional flow. IME filter feeders, most notably feather dusters, do especially well in areas that receive a consistent current -especially a gentle upward current IME. It seems to me that filter feeders grow and orientate themselves to maximize their filtering capacity (sea fans illustrate this pretty clearly).
Also, just to clarify, I don't mean a permanently one directional current, but long periods consistent flow. For example, one powerhead at each end of the tank on an alternate 6 hour cycle, aimed to create a clockwise/counterclockwise current... of course you could design far more elaborate and effective ways of achieving this.
Any thoughts or comments would be much appreciated.
1.) The point that I want to highlight the most is pod (and especially microfauna) production within the tank. Ive found that feeding my fuge with meaty food, as well as phyto, makes my pod population explode. I would imagine that by excluding predators from the main tank (ie. shrimp, fish etc) could result in a refugium-like main tank where the fauna doubles as a clean up crew and food source.
If the pod population was large enough and well fed, they could potentially support the filter feeders needs via plankton production. A continuous supply of live planktonic critters would be major. In a perfect system, all of the food that your sessile feeders miss would be consumed by your fauna and processed into more food aka pods and their planktonic larvae.
Of course the big question is: how big of a population would you need to have a significant effect and is that level of production even feasible in the aquarium? The effectiveness is debatable, but I would bet you could achieve some significant results.
2.) An oversized fuge. and maybe skimmerless... If you could keep your inorganic nutrient levels low enough via a fuge with macroalgae, then I would say without a doubt -skimmerless would be the way to go. I don't have a whole lot of basis for saying this... but I would think that DOC's (that skimmers pull) would be a food source for filter feeders. Also, the skimmer is going to remove/destroy a portion of the plankton. Also, a large fuge would have obvious benefits towards the point I made in #1.
3.) A constant, one directional flow. IME filter feeders, most notably feather dusters, do especially well in areas that receive a consistent current -especially a gentle upward current IME. It seems to me that filter feeders grow and orientate themselves to maximize their filtering capacity (sea fans illustrate this pretty clearly).
Also, just to clarify, I don't mean a permanently one directional current, but long periods consistent flow. For example, one powerhead at each end of the tank on an alternate 6 hour cycle, aimed to create a clockwise/counterclockwise current... of course you could design far more elaborate and effective ways of achieving this.
Any thoughts or comments would be much appreciated.
mariusz621
New member
Capital,
It all looks good on a paper but I have my doubts if this could possibly work.
The idea of having a fuge to cultivate live food is good, but I don't really think you would be able to produce enough food to sustain nps tank, unless of course your fuge is a few times bigger than your tank...Bearing that in mind I think there would always be a need for additional food. For this reason I would never go skimmerless on nps tank.
For my tank which is 5x2x2 I use daily 1 cube of bbs, 1 cube rootifers, 1 cube cyclops, 2 teaspoons of marine snow, 2 of rootifers concentrat, 3 of phyto. I also dose a range of fauna marine products and every other day there is a dose of additional 4 cubes of frozen food for sun corals. I just can not imagine I would be ever able to produce that amount of food myself...
The flow idea is good. I don't use very turbulent flow and try to create a lot of laminare type of flow... I use tunze wavebox and 2 mp40 vortech. I get plenty of strong soft laminar current...
It all looks good on a paper but I have my doubts if this could possibly work.
The idea of having a fuge to cultivate live food is good, but I don't really think you would be able to produce enough food to sustain nps tank, unless of course your fuge is a few times bigger than your tank...Bearing that in mind I think there would always be a need for additional food. For this reason I would never go skimmerless on nps tank.
For my tank which is 5x2x2 I use daily 1 cube of bbs, 1 cube rootifers, 1 cube cyclops, 2 teaspoons of marine snow, 2 of rootifers concentrat, 3 of phyto. I also dose a range of fauna marine products and every other day there is a dose of additional 4 cubes of frozen food for sun corals. I just can not imagine I would be ever able to produce that amount of food myself...
The flow idea is good. I don't use very turbulent flow and try to create a lot of laminare type of flow... I use tunze wavebox and 2 mp40 vortech. I get plenty of strong soft laminar current...
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