Shrunk and closed Zoas

[00101]

Well this has happened to pretty much all the frags of Zoas I put in my tank. Most don't melt, only 1 frag did once, and the others just sorta shrink and stop opening. These are gods of war that have been in my tank for 4ish months. For now I have my tank under the care of some relatives, and I only see it once ever 2 weeks. Well the led lighting I had previously started failing and it was incredibly dim and weak. I replaced it 2 weeks ago with an 17w actinic tube florescent. Under the old failing light everything was closed and pretty much stayed closed. Now with the actinic most things are doing better. These gods of war show no changes though. They've been pretty closed more or less since I've gotten them too. However before the failing light they were a lot taller and less squished looking and more open.

The tank is 5 gallons. Temp is 79. Salinity is 1.024. Nitrates are 0. Phosphates are 0. Alk is 8.

The gods of war are on the lower 1/3 of the tank.

 

[A. Grandis]

I would change the lights all together to start with.
I don't recommend LEDs for reef tanks yet. That's just me.
Get some good T5s and possibly a bigger tank, for a decent T5 fixture.
The more bulbs you can fit over the tank the better.
Make sure you acclimate the polyps to the new light carefully.
You'll need a combo of "white" and blue bulbs to keep zoas healthy for a long period of time.

You just can't expect to have zoanthids under poor light conditions.
That is part of the basics for reef keeping.
Besides light you'll find lots of other basic needs too.

Grandis.

 

[00101]

I've already changed the light 2 weeks ago. Its a florescent now.

I also tested the calcium and magnesium, 390 and 1360 respectively.

 

[A. Grandis]

One bulb won't do the job.
Try to fit as many bulbs you can per surface area.
Combo of "white" and blue, like the ATI Blue Plus.

Grandis.

 

[00101]

Its a 5 gallon tank... 17w should be pretty suffcient... I mean its pretty well lit just looking at the tank. Its not like I'm growing a ton of sps in there.

So do you think I should move them up in the tank?

 

[A. Grandis]

Its a 5 gallon tank... 17w should be pretty suffcient... I mean its pretty well lit just looking at the tank. Its not like I'm growing a ton of sps in there.

So do you think I should move them up in the tank?

Please read post #2. That's my answer.:thumbsup:
Even if you want to move them around the tank.

Grandis.

 

[00101]

All I'm saying is, I really don't think I need to more than double my light output for a tank that is never more than 10" deep. Another florescent, especially a white one would at least double the light. These zoas are only like 6 inches below the surface. Wouldn't adding another 17w bulb fry them? And if they did need more light, wouldn't moving them higher be the thing to try before slapping on more lights?

I mean I'm not saying you're wrong, but it just seems like a ton of light for a tiny tank with softies and lps.

 

[00101]

Also was reading a coral rescue thread and one of the things that seems to work is to use the 'tupperware feeding method'. I figure its cheap, and can't really make things worse, so I'll give that a shot. Would blended shrimp be a good choice for feeding zoas?

 

[A. Grandis]

Please do a search for lighting on reef tanks and feeding zoas.
The reason I tell you to search is just so you can take your own conclusions about the topics after reading for yourself.
That way it doesn't sound like I'm the big shot and that's the best way one can decide what to do.
Perhaps others could also give their opinion to you here.

Just keep in mind that there is much more than light and feeding to keep zoas healthy.
:thumbsup:

Grandis.

 

[00101]

I am well aware that there's more to keeping coral than light and food. That's why I posted my params, which since going with out comment are ok I'm assuming. I have a 18" 4100K t5 that I could throw on too, but with that low of a color temp its probably going to encourage algae growth. I can order a 10000K bulb, but I'd rather have another opinion how much light this size tank should have before spending the money.

Just for the sake of more information, water changes are conducted either once or twice a week at 20% each. I use instant ocean reef crystals for the salt.

They are in an area of low-ish flow.

Tank mates are a couple ricordea, shrooms, duncans, and hammer coral. The closest is a tiny green bay ricordea at about 3 inches off to the side.

Filtration is a sponge, which was just cleaned, with carbon and those little ceramic bioball things. I'm currently wresting with a fluval 206 canister filter that needs some new parts.

Current lighting is from 6am to 4pm (10 hours)

I've started to feed the tank ~1ml phyto once a week.

Clean up crew is 1 blue legged hermit, which was just introduced so he hasn't been bugging them. 1 turbo snail, 1 astrea snail, and 1 nassarius snail.

Thats about all the information I can think of off the top of my head. I can do my best to answer any other questions that might help.

Also would the shrimp mush be a good choice for feeding?

 

[A. Grandis]

Nope, the shrimp mush would be something to avoid in your tank!!!!
I suggest coral food, like Reef Chili, if you want to feed the zoas.
Please do a search. There are huge threads on zoa feeding...
The polyps need to be healthy first!
I wouldn't feed phyto!!
Please fix your problems and have the zoas open in order to even think of feeding them.

The best light for you to try out would be something like Aquablue Special or Coral Plus, both by ATI. But I think they make only down to 24W bulbs. I believe they are probably about 24 inches in length (?).
Please do not use the 4100K!!!
If you can find a 10000K for your tank is much better than the 4100K, of course.
If the 10000K bulb you're talking about is really close to 10000K it's a good choice.

You can bring down the photoperiod to 8 hours (total photoperiod) or less with new bulbs.
Of course you need to adapt the system if you add the 10000k for 8 hours. Make sure you don't kill the corals/zoas with new light!!! Adaptation period can take more than a month, depending on the system and number of lights added/changed! I hope you know how to do it.

Watch your Hammer to make sure it's not reaching the polyps at night.

You can bring down your water changes to 10% once a week.

Your filtration system isn't the best, but it should work. The principal works, but most times it's unnecessary to have a canister for a reef tank (basics, again!). Make sure your canister is working properly and do the maintenance it requires, just like for their use with planted aquariums.

I'm waiting for those other opinions as well...
Perhaps someone will tell you what you want to hear?
Or perhaps the "zoa gurus" or "experts" will show up.

I've got to get back to work...
Good luck! Best to you and your tank! :thumbsup:

Grandis.

 

[00101]

The feeding would be occurring in a separate vessel. Its a method used when nps don't want to eat. It's also been adapted to bleached and stressed rescues that don't want to eat either. Google the 'tupperware method'. I'm looking in to feeding them because as they are I can't imagine they're getting enough light to get enough energy. The reef chili looks interesting. I've just been feeding phyto since I have it lying around. The phyto feeding has just started this week in an attempt to get these guys some extra energy. I have read a few threads on what zoas eat. I've read from brine shrimp to seafood mush, to phyto to zoo, to cyclopeeze to marine snow. Which really doesn't help narrow a food choice down. I've heard good things about the seafood mush, and since its readily available and cheap I figured that'd be a decent enough first try.

Like I said, I know the 4100K is a bad idea. I just threw it out there as something that could be used until a better bulb was acquired if it was direly necessary that more light be added. But once again, I'm wary of slapping on over 40w of lighting on a 5 gallon, less than 10" deep tank. And yes, I'm aware how to adapt to a new light/photo period. I'm not just gonna double the light and let it go for 12 hours.

The hammer coral is clear on the other side of the tank, so unless its got 7-8" sweepers I don't think its hitting them.

I'm not currently using the canister, just the stock filter that came with the tank. I'd like to use the canister over the stock because it would give me some extra water to work with to help keep things stable. And because I could then use the stock filter section either for a small fuge or a skimmer. Yes I'm aware skimmers are not usually necessary on small tanks, but for the price of a small rio pump and some scrap acrylic I've got lying around, I don't think it'd be a bad investment or use of the space.

Water changes are in all actuality only going to be 20% once a week. Honestly its just a convenient amount. Is that too much? Its really my only source of nutrient export.

 

[TankStudy]

Your zoanthids may have been burned under the LED's. I would recommend leaving your armor of gods alone for awhile. I would avoid changing so many variables in your tank. I find it best to treat the symptoms shown by zoas vs. changing too many variables in hopes of a change. Unless the zoas continue to deteriorate under new lighting, I would leave them alone to recover.

I have about 40 varieties of zoas under LED's atm. From my experience, if they close up on LED's its highly likely they were exposed to too much light and will close for long periods of time. Let them acclimate to the new lighting for multiple weeks. Once the frag has adjusted what it will do is the normal routine for zoanthids, stretch for light if it is now ready for more or it will flatten out against its creep if it has plenty.

 

[00101]

So should I move them down? And then once they respond move them as needed? Or should I just leave them where they are?

 

[TankStudy]

I would move them to the bottom of the tank, if they were burned from too much light, so that when they start to open again this would prevent them from being exposed to too much light immediately.

 

[00101]

Cool. Would trying to feed them ala the tupperware method be something to try or avoid? I mean they've been closed like that for a couple months, so I can't imagine they're getting much food out of the zooxanthellae. Then again, they have lasted this long without melting.

 

[TankStudy]

I would avoid feeding as well. They don't have their mouths open to feed and I think if they are absorbing thru their skin, their should be enough in the water column to support them since they aren't very active in this state. Kind of like feeding a hibernating bear I would feel.

 

[miah2bzy]

I don't think the hammer will go after Zoas. Just hard corals...or am I mistken?