Sicce pumps
- Thread starter Jayson
- Start date
the fact the QO can pull 25LPM in 27 watt it's great and the cost of the pump also great and i think it's better then the gen x4100 but no better then the Sicce , i think when the pump will connect to a skimmer the result will be near to 18LPM and if i connect it on the BM250 it will be even less then that with the sicce when 2 pump connect to my skimmer i pull 25LPM on each one without problem and it's big different also this less then 30 watt .
the foam that this pump will build with this # and flow rate will never be the same as the Sicce and when i test the GEN x6100 with moded shroud i was able to pick more then 25LPM but the foam was never the same as the Sicce , when i reduce the outlet the pump increase the watt but reduce the air to .
with the sicce i pull more then 25 LPM when the pump not connect to the skimmer body, i was able to get 35LPM at 7" depth but it was hard .
the new one will pull with the controller 82 SCFH 40 watt use and better venturi , i believe when they will mod better....(with the alloy mesh the pump pull 92SCFH ) they will come easy to 90 (with the regular PF4) and even close to 100SCFH with no more then 50watt (but it's need to be tested to confirm that).
i believe if on the QO the shroud will be moded the pump will increase more 5LPM and this can make big different when the pump will connect to the skimmer body , again to confirm that 100% it's need to be tested .
i want to see when dudedudedude will connect to a skimmer what the # will be, how the pump build the foam & the skimmer size this will let us to know more correct how the pump perform .
the foam that this pump will build with this # and flow rate will never be the same as the Sicce and when i test the GEN x6100 with moded shroud i was able to pick more then 25LPM but the foam was never the same as the Sicce , when i reduce the outlet the pump increase the watt but reduce the air to .
with the sicce i pull more then 25 LPM when the pump not connect to the skimmer body, i was able to get 35LPM at 7" depth but it was hard .
the new one will pull with the controller 82 SCFH 40 watt use and better venturi , i believe when they will mod better....(with the alloy mesh the pump pull 92SCFH ) they will come easy to 90 (with the regular PF4) and even close to 100SCFH with no more then 50watt (but it's need to be tested to confirm that).
i believe if on the QO the shroud will be moded the pump will increase more 5LPM and this can make big different when the pump will connect to the skimmer body , again to confirm that 100% it's need to be tested .
i want to see when dudedudedude will connect to a skimmer what the # will be, how the pump build the foam & the skimmer size this will let us to know more correct how the pump perform .
I assume the controller is external to the pump? any chance it will be sold separately?
i believe if on the QO the shroud will be moded the pump will increase more 5LPM and this can make big different when the pump will connect to the skimmer body , again to confirm that 100% it's need to be tested.
[/QUOTE]
so the shroud is bigger on the psk2500?
backyardspecial
New member
Just wanted to let you guys know of one draw back to QO 3000. Had this pump as a regular return pump and it always had start up problems. Start up problem progressively got worse with usage. If you're turning your skimmer on and off this might not be the pump for you. I hope others have better luck with this pump then me.
dudedudedude
Member
Update
I restricted the intake and get 35 scfh at 22 watts. I am also thinking about increasing the hieght of the volute becuase I think this will help pull more air and decrease start up issues. Please comment on this idea. I will be starting a new thread hopefully tonight that shows the mods I did with pictures. I would have had it up before but have been particularly busy.
I restricted the intake and get 35 scfh at 22 watts. I am also thinking about increasing the hieght of the volute becuase I think this will help pull more air and decrease start up issues. Please comment on this idea. I will be starting a new thread hopefully tonight that shows the mods I did with pictures. I would have had it up before but have been particularly busy.
foshizzle :
i am not working in ATI and i can't tell if the controller will be sold separate but from what i know and remember in the past the controller can match to the old pump .
i believe if on the QO the shroud will be moded the pump will increase more 5LPM and this can make big different when the pump will connect to a skimmer body , and not to reduce the outlet up front .... again to confirm that 100% it's need to be tested and to make some different mod....
i didn't saw in my eye the shroud in the QO (as i told you i never test it before) but i believe (in the Sicce) it's wider and longer....
as i said when the outlet reduce on the QO the air reduce the only way to increase it is to extend the shroud and to put more layer but if the pump have "Start up problem progressively " as backyardspecial said , it will be more worse when the shroud will extend . from the other side if i was able to increase the outlet in the Sicce without to destroy the cover the pump was pull more air because i was able to increase more the reducer to,crazy no.....
this is why i said the Sicce much stronger ......
i am not working in ATI and i can't tell if the controller will be sold separate but from what i know and remember in the past the controller can match to the old pump .
i believe if on the QO the shroud will be moded the pump will increase more 5LPM and this can make big different when the pump will connect to a skimmer body , and not to reduce the outlet up front .... again to confirm that 100% it's need to be tested and to make some different mod....
i didn't saw in my eye the shroud in the QO (as i told you i never test it before) but i believe (in the Sicce) it's wider and longer....
as i said when the outlet reduce on the QO the air reduce the only way to increase it is to extend the shroud and to put more layer but if the pump have "Start up problem progressively " as backyardspecial said , it will be more worse when the shroud will extend . from the other side if i was able to increase the outlet in the Sicce without to destroy the cover the pump was pull more air because i was able to increase more the reducer to,crazy no.....
this is why i said the Sicce much stronger ......shelburn61
New member
Has anyone tried tapping directly into the volute like Ewan did on his 1250? He claims its quieter. Seems it might also help get more air into the chamber initially to help with startup problems?
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1165814
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1165814
hahnmeister
In Memoriam
JCTewks,
Well, I tried your idea, and it worked out pretty well. I redid the venturi to be shorter... much shorter. The results are pretty cool, but now the pump makes a 'sputter'... not like choking where the pump 'pulses' on and off... but much faster... like 5 sputters per second. Its disrupting the foam a bit, but I think I can solve that later. I think I may have too large of a venturi volume, so its clearing the venturi pretty fast... too fast for the pump to need more so its 'sputtering'. The air intake bounces now from 30-50 scfh though... so its somewhere in between. The pump is much less noisy now though too, so I would imagine that the venturi I had before was too long, and therefore, just like being too small... it was too restrictive.
Here's how I did it...
first, more union connection pipes for the skimmer body to convert the metric fittings to US PVC...
Then, I bored out a 1"-3/4" reducer like JCTewks suggested so the 3/4" pipe could come right into the venturi shroud.
Then I bored out the shroud for the 1/2" pipe with the airline...
Then I actually had to reduce the OD of the 3/4" PVC so it would get even farther up inside the 1" slip-FPT adapter I use for the venturi shroud...
While I was at it, I also made a 'stubby' return pipe...
Then I made the venturi insert. The cool part is that its just pressure fitting... so I can remove the venturi itself and try different types to see how they work.
So I reduced the overall length of pipe, eliminated the union and valve (didnt need it, I can vary all I need to with the removable venturi inserts), and eliminated any possible resistance to the output. I even bored out the 3/4" MPT fitting on the outlet with a 7/8" bit so its very wide, and then goes to 1" into the body.
Like I said, I get a 'sputter' which I have to eliminate (maybe the venturi is too short this time... too far from the pump intake, or the volume of the venturi is too large and its clearing the volume of it before the 3/8" feed can replenish... who knows. Ill mess with it more. But desides the 'sputtering', the air intake bobs between 30 and 50 scfh. If I restrict the valve, I get about 38 scfh... so once I get this venturi thing tweaked, I should be able to get 40+ scfh... nice.
Then, I have to add some sort of bubble diffuser to the skimmer because as it is... the head is very unstable. I think I might have to add back on a downward facing elbow on the pump outlet at least... the neck is just too turbulent.
Well, I tried your idea, and it worked out pretty well. I redid the venturi to be shorter... much shorter. The results are pretty cool, but now the pump makes a 'sputter'... not like choking where the pump 'pulses' on and off... but much faster... like 5 sputters per second. Its disrupting the foam a bit, but I think I can solve that later. I think I may have too large of a venturi volume, so its clearing the venturi pretty fast... too fast for the pump to need more so its 'sputtering'. The air intake bounces now from 30-50 scfh though... so its somewhere in between. The pump is much less noisy now though too, so I would imagine that the venturi I had before was too long, and therefore, just like being too small... it was too restrictive.
Here's how I did it...
first, more union connection pipes for the skimmer body to convert the metric fittings to US PVC...
Then, I bored out a 1"-3/4" reducer like JCTewks suggested so the 3/4" pipe could come right into the venturi shroud.
Then I bored out the shroud for the 1/2" pipe with the airline...
Then I actually had to reduce the OD of the 3/4" PVC so it would get even farther up inside the 1" slip-FPT adapter I use for the venturi shroud...
While I was at it, I also made a 'stubby' return pipe...
Then I made the venturi insert. The cool part is that its just pressure fitting... so I can remove the venturi itself and try different types to see how they work.
So I reduced the overall length of pipe, eliminated the union and valve (didnt need it, I can vary all I need to with the removable venturi inserts), and eliminated any possible resistance to the output. I even bored out the 3/4" MPT fitting on the outlet with a 7/8" bit so its very wide, and then goes to 1" into the body.
Like I said, I get a 'sputter' which I have to eliminate (maybe the venturi is too short this time... too far from the pump intake, or the volume of the venturi is too large and its clearing the volume of it before the 3/8" feed can replenish... who knows. Ill mess with it more. But desides the 'sputtering', the air intake bobs between 30 and 50 scfh. If I restrict the valve, I get about 38 scfh... so once I get this venturi thing tweaked, I should be able to get 40+ scfh... nice.
Then, I have to add some sort of bubble diffuser to the skimmer because as it is... the head is very unstable. I think I might have to add back on a downward facing elbow on the pump outlet at least... the neck is just too turbulent.
JCTewks
In Memoriam
That's great news John!!! I have been toying with a similiar idea of using a "beckett" type injector before the pump, but this seems to be an easier way to do it than a larger pipe around a smaller pipe with lots of small holes drilled in it.
I'm glad you were able to get it to work. I have all of these ideas in my head, but, with a new baby at home I can't seem to get around to doing anything with them.
I am working on getting a quiet one 5000 to see just what it is capable of. I think there are lots of pumps out there that have potential to be great skimmer pumps that just haven't been played with yet...we'll see what we can do about that.
LOL
I'm glad you were able to get it to work. I have all of these ideas in my head, but, with a new baby at home I can't seem to get around to doing anything with them.
I am working on getting a quiet one 5000 to see just what it is capable of. I think there are lots of pumps out there that have potential to be great skimmer pumps that just haven't been played with yet...we'll see what we can do about that.
LOL
JCTewks
In Memoriam
Also, I would think that the "ridges" on the inside of the 1/2" insert might be part of the problem...they may be causing too much turbulence in the water stream coming into the pump and disrupting things. Maybe you could get rid of them with a cone file on a dremel or something.
Maybe try a quick taper on the output of the insert to allow smoother transition from the high pressure water to low.
Maybe try a quick taper on the output of the insert to allow smoother transition from the high pressure water to low.
hahnmeister
In Memoriam
I dont think its the water thats the problem though with the 'sputtering'.. I think its the air end. I think I left too large of a gap this time between the venturi and the pump outlet, and the volume of the venturi which wraps around the venturi is too large. I think I have to make the venturi just slightly longer and it should be alright. I was also going to try putting holes into the venturi itself so it starts sucking in water at the venturi.
Maybe I should buy a clear PVC FPT-slip adapter for the shroud... it sure would make it easier to see whats going on in there.
As is, the turbulence in the skimmer must be pretty bad though. The sputtering is literally vibrating the foam head so its not forming well. Oh well... tomorrow I have a WRS meeting, then I will come back and tinker with other venturis. Should be interesting. At least I think I have the venturi pretty close to ideal, thats why I dont think those 'ridges' make much difference. The air meter is bouncing around at 30-50 after all... seeming to favor the higher end of the scale (it dips only quickly after hitting 50... I think the meter is just bouncing around and thats why it hits 30... but it seems to really want to grab 50... so we'll see).
Maybe I should buy a clear PVC FPT-slip adapter for the shroud... it sure would make it easier to see whats going on in there.
As is, the turbulence in the skimmer must be pretty bad though. The sputtering is literally vibrating the foam head so its not forming well. Oh well... tomorrow I have a WRS meeting, then I will come back and tinker with other venturis. Should be interesting. At least I think I have the venturi pretty close to ideal, thats why I dont think those 'ridges' make much difference. The air meter is bouncing around at 30-50 after all... seeming to favor the higher end of the scale (it dips only quickly after hitting 50... I think the meter is just bouncing around and thats why it hits 30... but it seems to really want to grab 50... so we'll see).
shelburn61
New member
I guess you saw dude's posts?
dudedudedude
Member
Guys,
I am still perfoming tests so I dont have pics of the mods yet. However, I did measure the volute on other QO 3000 that I had.
Diameter: 68.5 mm
Height: 18mm
Can somone please confirm with calipers what the PSK2500 volute dimensions are?
I am still perfoming tests so I dont have pics of the mods yet. However, I did measure the volute on other QO 3000 that I had.
Diameter: 68.5 mm
Height: 18mm
Can somone please confirm with calipers what the PSK2500 volute dimensions are?
dudedudedude
Member
Loc,
With the venturi I have now in shallow water the QO3000 will start up, deeper water not so. With more mods I think that I will overcome problems with greater depth.
With the venturi I have now in shallow water the QO3000 will start up, deeper water not so. With more mods I think that I will overcome problems with greater depth.
dudedudedude
Member
Hahn,
I have found that with these kinds of venturis that if the air is bobbing it is because the water intake needs more restriction, ie you should get a steady 40 if you restrict the water a tad. However, I have found with some of my configurations that is it is bobbing in a 10 scfh range it will become steady in a day or two.
I have found that with these kinds of venturis that if the air is bobbing it is because the water intake needs more restriction, ie you should get a steady 40 if you restrict the water a tad. However, I have found with some of my configurations that is it is bobbing in a 10 scfh range it will become steady in a day or two.
