Sicce pumps

Hanh, what are the specs on that skimmer? Diameter, height, etc?

You are using this pump recirc. Have you tried it in a bucket in under 10" of water?

I had similar problems getting it to work and your mod is more careful than my test. I would note that you, as I, did not put the venturi in the same spot ATI does ... you need to drill into the gray cover just before the impeller. So part of the issue is you may have the venturi too far out.

Also, your intake is 3/4"? ATI's is 13mm.
 
Guys, if I can ever get some breathing room at work i will start a thread on mesh modding these pumps. The pumps are not at fault. I think it is a venturi issue rather than a mesh or zip tie. It does appear that the zips are further to the center of the disc then I do it. I don't know that it will make that much difference. ATI seems to have no problem getting good numbers. Also Mavgi is getting up to 45 LPM out of the same pump. If I can get the thread started, maybe myself and a couple of the others that know how to get performance out of pumps can help out.
Mike
 
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Mavgi is getting 45 LPM out of a 40w pump? Thats 100 scfh for 40w? Why the hell are we even screwing around with the lagunas/sequence, etc?


Hahn, I'm gonna see if I can find a QO 3000 and play around.
 
He is running it internally and also with no shaft. He has to get
it started with his finger when powered down. He is consistently getting 35 LPM without issues. The 45 LPM runs for a litlle while and then cavitates. Still pretty darn impressive with 35 LPM in my opinion. Ant the pump is using in the mid 20s for wattage!
 
Thats still 70+ scfh steady.


Why are we playing around with larger pumps?


Anyone got some real good specific pictures of the venturi, intake, etc, on the BM?
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10317674#post10317674 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by smjtkj
If I can get the thread started, maybe myself and a couple of the others that know how to get performance out of pumps can help out.
Mike

Mike,
How much air are you getting?
 
I have been experimenting with a DIY sicce BM pump and the lagunas and the benefit with the laguna is that although there is more watts/airflow they dont seam to have the start up issues that the sicce pumps have. I have gotten my sicce to 50scfh, but it only does this if I cover the pump intake at first and ease the water flow in. So it is a trade off.
 
Dude, the thing is, if the sicce can pull 50, I should be able to pull a whole lot more than 60 on my Laguna5000.

Methinks getting the air intake so close to the pump volute is having an effect.
 
There are two venturis...

http://www.sgreefclub.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=51002&st=0

http://www.zeovit.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8204

From the second one, the venturi inlet is listed as 15mm.
ATI_skummarpump_8.jpg

I made my venturi 5/8" ID, which is the diameter of 1/2" PVC, which is 15.875mm. Then I have the adjustable ball valve further up the line so I can match the restriction of a 13mm intake if I need to. I have tried this, and no greater intake has happened. FWIW, I played with a couple venturis (ball valve only venturis, a beckett, etc) and they came up the same. I shouldnt have to tap the threaded neck of the intake, I know that. If you look at how the venturi works, where you have the air inlet is not critical. Really, all a venturi is on a pump like this is a restrictor.... thats it. I can actually take out the 1/2" restriction part, lengthen the airline into the pump's intake, and use the ball valve to get the exact same results. A venturi on an asperating skimmer is not very technical... it does not act as a flow eductor like on a venturi that goes on an outlet of a pump. I just wanted to mimic the ATI version for kicks so the ball valve would allow me the most fine tuning ability. There is also that other version that shows that this is not important if you look at the first link. IME, the venturi is not flawed. Being that every version I have of it is giving me the exact same results, Im thinking its the pump. The recirc mounting doesnt change anything either. For those who read all my details, I am testing the pump by dropping it in the tank first as well... so back pressure due to depth doesnt change much. My back pressure should be the same, if not better than a bubblemaster actually. The pump is mounted 20" from the top of the skimmer, 10" below the waterline. This is about the same, if not better, than an ATI bubblemaster, which places the pump at the bottom of a 20-22" tall skimmer... non-recirculating. From the details, you may have read that I can actually get the pump to 'pulse' (it actually jumps up to 40-50 scfh when it does this) if I dont restrict the air intake some. So the venturi is plenty effective & free-flowing.

Oh, and why bother with a Laguna? Well, a Laguna 2400 does 120scfh, or 57lpm... at almost 3' of depth. These ATIs will choke on more than 2' of depth, if that. And they will do it for less than 90 watts.

But on the PSK here... what are you guys seeing as far as the mesh goes? is it too tight? Too thin (3/8"?), or too narrow? Its got to be something along these lines. It seems like the zip-ties are rubbing on the backside of the impeller well in my case because the plastic on the pump looks like it (I have no basis for comparison, but this might be why my pumps seems to hum a bit more than I expected). Even though I dont see ATI's being any smaller, perhaps because my holes are towards the center more...???

Just curious, can I get just the impellers from anyone? Smjtkj or Jayson? I would like to buy a couple as backup for just water pumps if nothing else.?
 
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One thing that might help me is if some of you who have kill-a-watts, and have done the mod right, could post the wattage and VA (I can get power factor from just that... or give me wattage and PF). Believe it or not, these help figure out the turque that your pump is using, and can clue me in to what might be wrong.
 
Rich, I have found that an extremely important factor in regards to getting more air is how the water is restricted in relation to the air intake. The flow pattern that is produced with water restriction can create a greater vacuum to suck air depending on many foactors. I will post when I have come up with an optimized pump intake. I dont want to call it a venturi because it isnt what you would consider to be one in the traditional sense.
 
hahn,
If you prebend the zip ties to 90 degree angles where they need to bend around the impeller holes, when you zip them they will be flush with the impeller bottom and shouldnt rub then.
 
Hanh,
I can get 20 lpm out of mine by using a different pump intake. The one that I am getting the best results from so faris very basic. I take a piece of 1/2 acrylic cut it to fit inside the pump intake. I then use a chamfered grinding stone to grind out the taper. The smallest hole is aprox 15 millimetrs and the largest is aprox 22 millimetrrs. I also have the air intake drilled out right at the center of where the threads meet the smooth part of the housing. I am getting aprox 26 watts on my meter. The one that I did notice is when I first had it going it was noisy and I busted my shaft from having the PF4 under the nipple that holds the yellow rotor on. This caused me to only pull around 15 lpm. PM me about the new impellors.
 
dudedudedude... Im trying your idea tomorrow.

Jayson... Ill try making an intake that is closer. The only thing I can think of is that the water is being too restricted by my 1/2" 'venturi' due to its length... and the longer the length... the more of a pressure drop. As far as the air goes... there is no restriction there, and as far as the pump is concerned, the air is being introduced at the exact same point. I can post a diagram to illustrate.

But there might be something to this diameter of the intake vs. length. Because of the length of mine, it may be wider, but end up being more restrictive as it is longer.

Ill have to try some more 'tricks' tomorrow.
 
hahnmeister


you killing the pump :lol:

connect it close to the skimmer and cut those pipe size to big and lose a lot of power.

you can make the mesh more wider 2-3 mm from the wheel size you lose there power to the way you did it . after 2 day the mesh will get steady and the pump will start without problem with the sahft .

i know that on the new Sicce (the one that will run on the BM300) they change to a better venturi and the pump pull 2300LPH with 4 layer....
 
hahnmeister just for you :D i want to show you that it is possible to pick more it's just the way of the mod and i did it quick after the last post i made . i am sure the performance even can be better but need to work on it ....

the pump run in those picture on ER-CS8-3 30" high - 8" diameter , the pump also run with a shaft 3 layer .

i use here with2 elbow (because i didn't want to drill one more hole and they was needed to match to fit to the pump, you can see it in the picture ...) if i cut one more elbow and work on the mesh i believe i can get more then 25LPM .

the problem with your mod the pipe are to long , the air pipe need to be closer , and try also to put the reducer inside the intlet . also if you can work with 3/4" pipe the pump will perform better.

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2 sicce on ER CS8-3 with the cup of the BM250 (about 35" high) the pump was mount high because didn't want to drill the acrylic . (my wife going to kill me ;) )

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