sick and dying fish, do I have ICH?

352Reefer

In Memoriam
Sorry for such a long post, but I hope someone can help with some advice on what to do before I lose my fish.

I had 4 clowns in my tank, all who got along just great...last Sunday I had a tiny male wonder off on his own and not hang with the pack anymore, kept to himself hiding in a rock, Monday I went to bed and he was in that spot, the next day still in the same spot, would not move, not even for food, I did notice he was breathing heavy.

Well later that day I moved them all into a 20 gal tub while I changed my sand out for live sand, I noticed in the tub he stayed to himself lying low at the bottom...the next morning I put them all in a 10gal tank while the main tank went through its mini cycle due to the new sand, I watched this little guy in the 10gal, which by the way was new saltwater, I noticed he was swimming upright, breathing hard, would go to the surface very often, and I knew he was dying, sure enough he died minutes later.

The remianing 3 have been perfectly fine....I put the remaining 3 in the main tank as soon as the levels were good, then I noticed that the female who use to be the partner for the one that died, she was fine for a day back in the main tank, then she too went into hiding (same spot as the other clown) just like the last guy, breathing hard, has very light white mucus like substance on her skin, not white dots, but more like white film just very light though, she is not going to the surface like the other clown did, she is in an upright position breathing very hard, wont eat, and I notice when she does come out briefly that on some of the white areas of her body looks as if the white is scratched, so unsure if she may be scratching against the rock or not, this I am not sure of as I havent seen her do it, looks like she is going down the same path as the previous one.....and a male I got in the tank I too now see going into hiding and breathing hard.

NOTE: today I say hundreds of almost microscopic white dots on the glass on the inside of the tank, when I looked closely they were tiny white bugs crawling on the glass, they crawl very fast, they will jump off the glass and back on, but ar very very tiny, like needlepoint tiny.

NOTE: the tiny male clown that died, the female who is now the same, and another male from a ccouple of weeks ago who also began to die even while still in the bag aclimating, all 3 of these came from the same fish store....originally I bought this couple a male and female, the male had the same filmy white substance on his skin, I didnt see until the bag went into my tank to aclimate, I noticed him behahing quite strange while in the bag, breathing hard, and at the surface of the bag, a while later I let them out of the bag, he died within minutes....the female has been doing great for the past 2 weeks, was very active, she is however the one who is now dying, and the little guy that died last week he was the clown the store gave me as a replacement, so he had been in the tank just as long as the female who is now sick, they both got a long very nice....the fish from this store were either sick or something.

I need to figure out what is wrong and what to do before I lose all my clowns.

And now discovering this tiny bugs....this is driving me nuts.

Please help, I need to save these fish.

Thanks,
Jon
 
Marine Ich shows up as small white dots on the fish. Did you see any of those?

The small bugs are probably copepods, which are ok.

Have you tested for Ammonia?
 
Hey, man.. I'm going to try this again, and please don't take it as a personal attack or anything I know I may have seemed a bit gruff on the Anchor board.. Some times it's hard to hear things, but you need to take some steps to get your tank set up right..

You *need* to remove your livestock and take it back to the store and let your tank cycle for at least 30-60 days before you put more fish in it.. Get a couple of shrimp from Publix and throw them in the empty tank and that will encourage the nitrate cycle to begin.. DO NOT use fish for this as it is CRUEL.. You could live in a room filled with smoke if you stayed on the floor, but it would damage your lungs permanently.. This is the equivalent of using damsels to cycle a tank..

And when you do restock, do some serious research before you do so.. 4 clowns in an 80 gallon tank is a recipe for disaster.. They are aggressive towards one another and will end up as a pair..

This is the only way you can be reasonably sure your tank will be successful, and even this will not do it 100%.. You must also learn about quarantine, medicating fish, etc. to be a long term, successful reefer..

PATIENCE = Happy fish!
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13444072#post13444072 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by akwtampa
Hey, man.. I'm going to try this again, and please don't take it as a personal attack or anything I know I may have seemed a bit gruff on the Anchor board.. Some times it's hard to hear things, but you need to take some steps to get your tank set up right..

You *need* to remove your livestock and take it back to the store and let your tank cycle for at least 30-60 days before you put more fish in it.. Get a couple of shrimp from Publix and throw them in the empty tank and that will encourage the nitrate cycle to begin.. DO NOT use fish for this as it is CRUEL.. You could live in a room filled with smoke if you stayed on the floor, but it would damage your lungs permanently.. This is the equivalent of using damsels to cycle a tank..

And when you do restock, do some serious research before you do so.. 4 clowns in an 80 gallon tank is a recipe for disaster.. They are aggressive towards one another and will end up as a pair..

This is the only way you can be reasonably sure your tank will be successful, and even this will not do it 100%.. You must also learn about quarantine, medicating fish, etc. to be a long term, successful reefer..

PATIENCE = Happy fish!
Now that I found the history, I fully agree. Patience equals success. I too have 4 clowns, all in a 50 QT, where they've been for a few weeks and will be until haloween. Then they will go into a 390. I would never keep 4 clowns permenantly in an 80. There are rules for successfully setting up a tank. You need to slow down and follow the rules.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13444081#post13444081 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by akwtampa
Mike, we need to meet.. always posting on the same threads.. :)
Ride down to FAOIS with Ted sometime.
 
Another thing to remember is that the 1 inch per gallon rule does NOT apply to saltwater.. You have to consider terminal size on your fish in whether or not to stock it in your tank.. For example, no "Dori" in an 80 gallon.. :) They need room to swim, and even if you intend to upgrade, it's better to wait and buy the fish when you have the room..

Aaron
 
Not as large as Ted's, no.. A medium sized one.. I'm probably going to just buy the body for the time being.. I've got a couple of motors I'd like to try on it before I spring the bucks for the big motor..

The caveat being that I'll probably end up springing anyway.. :)
 
OK, Thanks guys, that was of NO help....I knew you all were going to come back about my tank history.

Let me start by saying these clowns have all BEEN there just fine, I know MANY people including my own mother who is 70yrs old and has more experience with saltwater fish than most on here, she has owned saltwater tanks since I was 5.

I knew it, I knew it, that this was exaclty what I was going to hear, and no response directly answered my qustion, instead it turned into taking about carpooling to FAOIS an buying skimmers, please open another thread to discuss off topic stuff.

If it sound like I am ****ed, I am, maybe I wasted my time even posting this, I should go try another forum.

I have known MANY who have added damsels and clows SUCCESFULLY without killing them or getting them sick in the 1st week of owning their tank, and their fish have been fine....it may not be what is recommended, but they wll live.

And about the 4 clowns beeing a problem, AS MENTIONED: they were all coexisting just fine and were very friendly together, I am very well aware about clowns behavior, again I am new to the hobby, but my mother succesfully had seveal clowns in her tanks, and she had ALOT of tanks.

as a matter of facxt the guy I recently bought the new pair of clowns had 3 percs and a skunk all in the same tank....not always do they ge along, may be rare that they do, but there are cases where they do....in my ccase they did.

As far as throwing table shrimp in my tank to encourage my nitrite or nmitrate cycle to begin.....I have tested my levels everyday for the past 3 weeks religioulsy, and at one point my nitrites were off the charts, they are now at ZERO, amonia ZERO....my tank is officially cycled.

You know what folks, disregard this post, please dont reply, not if it is going to be anything about the history of my tank or to talk about off topic stuff.....the only repleis I was looking for were to be directly related to my post SICK FISH, BUGS ON GLASS, WHIT +E FILMY SUBSTANCE ON FISHS SKIN< ETC....not "oh I warned you about your tank not being ready, your impatient, if anyone feels the urge to reply related to that, please dont bother.

When someone posts a question, the answer should be rerlated to the question....as a matter of fact the simple observation that the 3 sick fish have all been from the same store, one of which was dying even while still in the bag had NOTHING to do with my tank being too new.

Sp please, I dont want to hear anything about my tank being too new, please read carefully before responding, or dont resapond....boy I have tosay my experience aint starting very well on this forum, maybe time to find another forum.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13444333#post13444333 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by LauraCline
sounds like Brooklynella (sp?) to me.

What is this, and any suggestions on treating. I dont want to wait days before I do whatever they need.

I did google copepods, and the images I saw they do look like what I see on the glass,but they are like needlepoint size, but this is what it loos like google image , are these ok, or are theygoing to be an infestation, or do I leave thm alone?
 
These are good for your system.. leave them be.. will feed your animals in the long run..

Brook or Velvet.. Pretty common in clowns..
 
A few people did try to answer you questions. To me the bugs sound like cope pods and they are good for your tank.
The White film on your clowns sounds like Brooklynella. I had a maroon clown die of this. By the time I figured out what it was, it was too late for the fish.
Here is a link with a picture and treatment options.
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/brooklynellosisart.htm
 
The White film on your clowns sounds like Brooklynella. I had a maroon clown die of this. By the time I figured out what it was, it was too late for the fish.
Here is a link with a picture and treatment options.
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/brooklynellosisart.htm [/B]

I googled Brooklynellosis, on google images to see what this might look like, and although it looks a bit like that, its not as noticeable on my clown as on the pictures on google images, on my clown you dont see it right away, I see it because I stare at it close when it swims by to see if I find anything on its skin, and when it turns and the light hits it is when I see it, otherwise you wouldnt even know its there, but those fish on google images those you can imedaitelly see they have something on their skin, mine is nothing that bad, although it is similar in look to it.

I found her swimming around a little while ago which was akward as she hasn't done so since she came down with this, and I noticed she isn't exaclty breathing hard, but just jas her mouth slightly open constantly which he didn't before this disease....the other male in the tank that hs noiw gone into hiding, he is breathing hard.

the one male that had started to die while still in the bag when I bought her, he too had this on his skin, I saw it when the bag was in the tank....seems they sold me a sick fish....she however had been very lively and clean, and now she isn't.

The 4 clowns were actually pairs, it started out with the sick female I have now and the tiny little male that died the other day in the 10gal tank, they were "paired", then I bought a mated pair, when they all were loose in the tank they all played with each other, they seemed to turn into "swingers" as each would be sniffing the others partner, and the 2 females were actually playing together as a male/female would which I thought was weird, but they all got along real good.

In anycase, does anyone know how to treat Brooklynellosis? I want to help them out before they die, or infect the one that is not yet sick.

Any help is appreciated.

Thanks,
Jon
 
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