Sizing A Nutrient Removal Refugium

[Marc Daniels]

I have been fighting Nitrate, and would like to add a chaeto packed refugium to help with removal. I'd like to here what size everyone thinks I should use, especially those using them or that have experience with them.

Tank Parameters
300g Mixed Reef (SPS & LPS dominated)
dkh 11, pH 8.23-8.34, ammonia & nitrite undetectable, Phosphate .02, calcium 390, SG 1.025, temp 78
Nitrate 30+
For being a 300g tank, the coral load is fairly low, but I do have 20 fish and I feed 3-4 times daily (light feedings). The fish load is;
5 Fire Fish
4 Blue Eye Cardinals
1 Blue Tang
2 Clowns
1 Coris Wrasse
1 Watermelon Wrasse
3 Yellow Tail Damsels
3 Green Chromis
I change 50g out very 2-3 weeks, and all my water is 0 TDS RO/DI. I'd like to get my Nitrates down to 5-10.

So, the question is how large of a refugium, packed with Chaeto would everyone advise that I go with.

 

[Nu2SW]

Ive heard of a rule of half the size of the display tank.

But say you used a 50g with 6 inch sandbed and the rest with chaeto. That stuff likes LOTS of flow. So you wouldnt want it packed so tight that it would be crammed.

a slim example is my 50 with a 20g refugium. I have 0 nitrates and it was taken up about 2/3 of the tank. I just cut it back and the tank is empty. But my nitrates have been at 0 for many months now.

I think a 50 would be okay, but when in doubt go bigger. LOL

No more than 100 I would think also.

Hope that helps.

Good to see ya around.

 

[GreshamH]

I'd think a 150 rubbermaid would be perfect Marc. IMO/IME a 50g would be a bit undersized as it doesn't have that large of a surface area. IME when you want to grow mass algae, having the greatest surface area will maximize your growth/harvest/export.

Nitrates....get more clams

 

[Marc Daniels]

Edwin-

Ya, I'm still breathing...just fighting some medical stuff the past several months and have hardly been online. Seems like it is one thing after another, and Thursday night I "found" a childs show in the dark and twisted my right ankle. It got worse/worse and finally went back to the doctor and it's a tear in the Anterior talofibular ligament. $%!@# I just got over a wrist injury, that was directly on the heels of carpal tunnel surgery.

Gresh-
Without fabing something outside of the house, a 150g isn't going to cut it. Unless I redo my sump & tank plumbing, I have a 24"x24" foot-print to work with. Thoughts?

 

[dots]

You may look into sugar dosing and upping to a larger skimmer......get it out before it turns to Nitrate.....and whats left take it out with sugar......

Sugar works great, but can be hazardous if over dosed.....Ive stunk up the house for a week on more than one occasion and nearly crashed it twice....but took my nitrates from 25 to 0 in less than 24 hours......I add a pinch every couple of weeks to keep it down and when I get busy and can't do the regular water change. Used sparinly and with your tank size, I think its a viable alternative.

Clams are a good suggestion also.......

 

[xia]

You can grow a lot of algae in a small area. I say fit what you can under there and keep the lights on 24/7 and trim it as often as you need to.

 

[Marc Daniels]

dots-

I already have a large G4 running on it. My problem is the fish load and feedings. But, I will look ino sugar.

Xia, I'm going to incorporate some algae into the display and also wanted a packed refugium. I may just squeeze a small one in and see what happens.

 

[dots]

I think that may be your best option.....cheapest and easiest....I would back the feedings off a bit too......once a day imo is enough...in fact have been feeding every other for quite a while....I neither have "fat" nor "skin and bones" fish by doing so.

 

[Marc Daniels]

Like I said, they are 3-4 a day, but very light. I had a large area on the left side of the tank that I just added a bunch of algae to, and I'll watch the Nitrate over the next few weeks to see if it fluctuates.

Marc

 

[Marc Daniels]

Like I said, they are 3-4 a day, but very light. I had a large area on the left side of the tank that I just added a bunch of algae to, and I'll watch the Nitrate over the next few weeks to see if it fluctuates.

Marc

 

[Marc Daniels]

Like I said, they are 3-4 a day, but very light. I had a large area on the left side of the tank that I just added a bunch of algae to, and I'll watch the Nitrate over the next few weeks to see if it fluctuates.

Marc

 

[dots]

Geez....man I get it......you don't have to repeat yourself......once is enought!!!

Dont you hate that when it happens!!!!

 

[MrMikeB]

dots - What is this sugar remedy? I have never heard of it before. I am in much the same position as Marc trying to battle feedings for fish and soaring nitrates. I do not have much room for a large refugium and have been shying away from chemical treatments and filters.

Sorry, not trying to hijack, just trying to get more info on how sugar can help in combination with a smaller refugium.

Thanks!

 

[pbetito]

FWIW Marc, I have a 25 gallon fuge PACKED with chaeto in my 240 gallon mixed reef and a solid skimmer and have virtually no nitrates (0-5) with a 6 inch deep sand bed. I leave the lights on 24hrs. and have 10 billion pods per inch and 3 bristle worms per pod Works for me.

 

[Marc Daniels]

I'm going to try some ornamental stuff in the tank, and a 40g sump.

 

[Nu2SW]

the sugar idea is like the dosing vodka idea. Never been tested in depth. People have used it. Ive heard good and bad. The sugar breaks down the nitrates or something. LOL sheesh hell I dont know.

I am sure a 40g will work just fine for you. And if you need some chaeto, I got some I can give to you. I trimmed my main, its bare But I have a nice size ball in my nano that you can have half from, give it a month and it will grow.

I dont leave my fuge light on 24/7, I do reverse photo period , The sun doesn't stay up 24/7. So it Just doesnt make sense to me when people say to keep it on 24/7. I would think that it needs a dark period to regenerate.

 

[dots]

If your tank is new.....it will have nitrates for a while due to new rock and such.......

I want to stress that this method of nitrate reduction works and is very effective.....I use it as an interm method for say.....you use it quarterly to remove the accumulation.....there are some potenially bad things that can result from this........

Here is a thread link that contains links from the RC chem guy Randy Holmes-Farley and his viewpoints on the subject so you can make your own desicion to use it or not.........I use it, but in extreme cases and sparingly.

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1015494

 

[Marc Daniels]

I jumped over and read all Randy's stuff after you mentoned it. I think I'l try the macro for a spell and see what happens.

The tank has been setup since Feb of 2004. All of the rock came out of a very mature 135g, plus some small additions about eight months ago.

 

[MrMikeB]

Sugar and Vodka... Who would have thought? Add a little salt and lime and we have ourselves one hell of a party.

 

[dots]

I suggested sugar based on your size limitations only as it seemed your altenative to a large secondary refugium to take up that much nitrate.....but a refugium full of chaeto is a more viable alternative.......I would like to get to that point myself, but don't have enough to grow the chaeto....keeps dissapearing...........

So sad, I can't even grow algae......and I call myself a reefer!!!!!:sad1: